55
   

THE BRITISH THREAD II

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 11:06 am
spendius wrote:
Mac wrote-

Quote:
What points?

1- The equating a cigarette with a smouldering refuse tip was underhand and a lie.

I was comparing the smell of the hair, clothes and person of a smoker with someting very unpleasant. That is not a lie, it is true. But I may have permitted myself some dramatic licence to get your attention. Worked, too.
Quote:

2- That you abuse our trust by finding an incident involving a "heavy" smoker and even then blithely assuming that the problem reported by a member of the claque was caused by that and not something else just on his/her sayso.

So? Medical evidence shows that the detrimental effects of just about every ailment are made worse by smoking.
Quote:

3- That you have no proof that passive smoking does anybody any harm and that it is a lie to assert, on no scientific evidence, that it does.

Steve has spoken to that. Roy Castle.
Quote:

4- That '14-'18 soldiers, airmen and sailors would have despised these fear-raddled do-gooders freaking out at the aroma of tobacco smoke.

Opinion. Times change, and habits too as new evidence comes to the fore. But irrelevant
Quote:

5- That this fear is often faked in order to gain power to officiously order everybody about in humiliating circumstances.

Partly true, but if you think that is what the Government are doing, bear in mind they are bringing about a huge drop in tax revenues. Now why would they choose to do that, if the advantages did not outweigh the disadvantages?
Quote:

6- That they won't go away now they have this victory.

"They" may be your best friends
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7- That smoking deaths, through abuse mainly, are much cheaper for the NHS than the long drawn out declines of people into their 80s and 90s.

Smoking banned extends useful lives. Rejoice.
Quote:

8- That non smokers get fat and obese and present the NHS with another set of difficulties.

Let's jump one fence at a time
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9- That non-smokers are crap company.

I've seen this stated before. It may be true. But smokers are smelly company.
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10- That nicotine inhibits degenerative brain disease and stimulates creativity which we need to prosper.

That's a new one on me, and probably not true. Users of other narcotics who wish to stimulate their brains (Coleridge, Byron) usually don't do it for long.
Quote:

11- That candlelit dining out should be outlawed on your own arguments along with a lot of other stuff.

Let's take a vote on that one. I vote for occasional candlelit dinners.
Quote:

12- That passive driving has killed and maimed millions of people for sure and thus unauthorised driving should be banned forthwith.

Unauthorised driving IS banned.
Quote:
13- That your excessive concern for our health is a club to beat us with and actually you don't give a shite and that if you do give a shite but not for victims of passive bargain hunting in the sweatshops of the world then you are objectively a dyed-in-the-wool racist and value human life on a sliding scale with yours at 100 and a coolie on zero.

My concern is for my health, and the pleasantness of my surroundings.
Mr Brown's concern is for all of us, even the miserable gits.
Quote:

14- That the ban is an attack on freedom.

It is, but what sort of freedom if that? I don't have the freedom to piss in your soup, even though you have no proof that it will do you any harm.

Any more?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 11:52 am
Quote:

THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS OF SMOKING AND NICOTINE.

Smoking lowers Parkinson's disease risk - More evidence that smoking fights Parkinson - "A new study adds to the previously reported evidence that cigarette smoking protects against Parkinson's disease. Specifically, the new research shows a temporal relationship between smoking and reduced risk of Parkinson's disease. That is, the protective effect wanes after smokers quit."
Impact of Smoking on Clinical and Angiographic Restenosis After Percutaneous Coronary Intervention - This large study shows yet another benefit of smoking. This time the benefit concerns restenosis, that is, the occlusion of coronary arteries. Smokers have much better chances to survive, heal and do well. Where is the press? Nowhere to be found, of course; we are talking about a significant positive about tobacco and smoking, which affects the health of people, don't we? Well, come on! We are also talking about responsible media, here… people better increase their chances of death from cardiovascular disease then getting the idea that smoking may be good for them - a totally unacceptable paradox.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines paradox in these terms: "A statement or tenet contrary to received opinion or belief … as being discordant with what is held to be established truth, and hence absurd or fantastic". Since the benefits of smoking are too numerous and consistent to be attributable to error or random chance, it follows that the established truth asserting that smoking is the cause of (almost) all disease cannot be true - a reality that dramatically clashes with the gigantic corruption of public health, its pharmaceutical and insurance mentors, institutions and media. Therefore, it is constantly suppressed in the interest of public health, but not of the people.

Severe Gum Recession, Less Of A Risk For Smokers - In the strange world that anti-tobacco has wrought, any research that deviates from the tobacco-is-the-root-of-all-evil template is noteworthy. Here is a study that shows that smokers are actually at lower risk from gum disease. In this page (scroll down) there is more scientific evidence from other sources about oral health and smoking.
Honest scientists have always known that smoking has some benefit. From the apparent shielding effect against Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases to the more intangible benefits associated with well-being and tranquility, smoking tobacco in many ways is definitely good for your health.

One of the "Health Warnings" on cigarette pack in Canada. There is no solid proof for any of the diseases attributed to tobacco - just statistics and speculative associations, but the ministries of health continue to lie to the public, in a dazzling display of intellectual, professional, moral and political corruption.
Twin Study Supports Protective Effect of Smoking For Parkinson's Disease - "Dr. Tanner's group continued to see significant differences when dose was calculated until 10 years or 20 years prior to diagnosis. They conclude that this finding refutes the suggestion that individuals who smoke more are less likely to have PD because those who develop symptoms quit smoking." "?'The inverse association of smoking dose and PD can be attributed to environmental, and not genetic, causes with near certainty," the authors write.'
Total silence from the antismoking mass media droids, of course, on this pivotal, long-range study that shows yet another benefit of smoking. The reasons are obvious, and they need no further comments. If the intention of "public health" is to inform the public about the consequences of smoking on health as it proclaims, why don't we see "warnings" such as: "Smoking Protects against Parkinson's Disease," or "Smoking protects against Alzheimer's Disease," or "Smoking protects against Ulcerative Colitis" and so on, alongside with the other speculations on "tobacco-related" disease? Isn't the function of public health to tell the citizens about ALL the effects on health of a substance? Obviously not. "Public health," today, is nothing more than a deceiving propaganda machine paid by pharmaceutical and public money to promote frauds, fears, and puritanical rhetoric dressed up in white coats.

Does tobacco smoke prevent atopic disorders? A study of two generations of Swedish residents - "In a multivariate analysis, children of mothers who smoked at least 15 cigarettes a day tended to have lower odds for suffering from allergic rhino-conjunctivitis, allergic asthma, atopic eczema and food allergy, compared to children of mothers who had never smoked (ORs 0.6-0.7). Children of fathers who had smoked at least 15 cigarettes a day had a similar tendency (ORs 0.7-0.9)."

Kids of smokers have LOWER asthma! You certainly won't see this one on the health news of BBC or ABC, as they are too busy trying to convince us that smokers "cause" asthma in their kids - and in the kids of others. That, of course, is not true, as smoking does not "cause" asthma.

Shocker: 'Villain' nicotine slays TB - "Nicotine might be a surprising alternative someday for treating stubborn forms of tuberculosis, a University of Central Florida researcher said Monday. The compound stopped the growth of tuberculosis in laboratory tests, even when used in small quantities, said Saleh Naser, an associate professor of microbiology and molecular biology at UCF. ... Most scientists agree that nicotine is the substance that causes people to become addicted to cigarettes and other tobacco products."

"… But no one is suggesting that people with TB take up the potentially deadly habit of smoking." Of course not.It is much better to develop medication-resistant superbugs than to start smoking...It should be said that the "most scientists" in question are paid off by the pharmaceutical industry for their research; and that most of the aforementioned "scientists" promote the nicotine-based "cessation" products manufactured by their masters -- mysteriously without explaining why such an addictive substance becomes "un-addictive" when used to quit smoking!
Carbon Monoxide May Alleviate Heart Attacks And Stroke - Carbon monoxide is a by-product of tobacco smoke. A report indicates very low levels of carbon monoxide may help victims of heart attacks and strokes. Carbon monoxide inhibits blood clotting, thereby dissolving harmful clots in the arteries. The researchers focused on carbon monoxide's close resemblance to nitric oxide which keeps blood vessels from dilating and prevents the buildup of white blood cells. "Recently nitric oxide has been elevated from a common air pollutant . . . to an [internal] second messenger of utmost physiological importance. Therefore, many of us may not be entirely surprised to learn that carbon monoxide can paradoxically rescue the lung from [cardiovascular blockage] injury." The pharmacological benefits of tobacco are nothing new.
Smoking Prevents Rare Skin Cancer - A researcher at the National Cancer Institute is treading treacherous waters by suggesting that smoking may act as a preventative for developing a skin cancer that primarily afflicts elderly men in Mediterranean regions of Southern Italy, Greece and Israel. Not that smoking should be recommended for that population, Dr. James Goedert is quick to assure his peers. What is important is not that smoking tobacco may help to prevent a rare form of cancer but that there is an admission by a researcher at the National Cancer Institute that there are ANY benefits to smoking.
Smoking Reduces The Risk Of Breast Cancer - A new study in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute (May 20, 1998) reports that carriers of a particular gene mutation (which predisposes the carrier to breast cancer) who smoked cigarettes for more than 4 pack years (i.e., number of packs per day multiplied by the number of years of smoking) were found to have a statistically significant 54 percent decrease in breast cancer incidence when compared with carriers who never smoked. One strength of the study is that the reduction in incidence exceeds the 50 percent threshold. However, we think it important to point out that this was a small, case control study (only 300 cases) based on self-reported data.
Nitric oxide mediates a therapeutic effect of nicotine in ulcerative colitis - "CONCLUSIONS: Nicotine reduces circular muscle activity, predominantly through the release of nitric oxide-this appears to be 'up-regulated' in active ulcerative colitis. These findings may explain some of the therapeutic benefit from nicotine (and smoking) in ulcerative colitis and may account for the colonic motor dysfunction in active disease."
Effects of Transdermal Nicotine on Cognitive Performance in Down's Syndrome - "We investigated the effect of nicotine-agonistic stimulation with 5 mg transdermal patches, compared with placebo, on cognitive performance in five adults with the disorder. Improvements possibly related to attention and information processing were seen for Down's syndrome patients compared with healthy controls. Our preliminary findings are encouraging…"

More benefits of nicotine. Of course, it is politically incorrect to say that this is a benefit of smoking - only of the pharmaceutically-produced transdermal nicotine, the one that is terribly addictive if delivered through cigarettes, but not addictive at all, and even beneficial, when delivered through patches....
Antismoking nonsense aside, nicotine gets into the body regardless of the means of delivery. And more evidence about the benefits seems to emerge quite often, though the small size of this study cannot certainly be taken as conclusive.
Nicotine Benefits - The benefits of nicotine -- and smoking -- are described in this bibliography. This information is an example of what the anti-tobacco groups do not want publicized because it fails to support their agenda. Some of the studies report benefits not just from nicotine, but from smoking itself. But of course, according to the anti-smokers, all these scientists have been "paid by the tobacco industry" ... even though this is not true. Sadly, personal slander and misinformation are the price a scientist has to pay for honest work on tobacco.
Parkinson's Disease Is Associated With Non-smoking - Bibliography of references from studies associating Parkinson's disease with non-smoking. Certain benefits of smoking are well-documented, but the anti smoking groups, backed by several medical journals (more interested in advertising revenue than in informing the population), are silent. By the way, what about the cost of non-smokers to society due to their prevailing tencency to contract Parkinson's disease?
Alzheimer's Disease Is Associated With Non-Smoking - "A statistically significant inverse relation between smoking and Alzheimer's disease was observed at all levels of analysis, with a trend towards decreasing risk with increasing consumption".
Research indicating that nicotine holds potential for non-surgical heart by-pass procedures honored by the american college of cardiology - Dr. Christopher Heeschen of Stanford University was honored by the American College of Cardiology for his research on the effect of nicotine on angiogenesis (new blood vessel growth). His work took third place in the 2,000 entry Young Investigators Competition in the category of Physiology, Pharmacology and Pathology. Dr. Heeschen presented compelling data from research done at Stanford revealing that the simple plant protein, nicotine, applied in small harmless doses, produced new blood vessel growth around blocked arteries to oxygen-starved tissue.
Smoking Your Way to Good Health - The benefits of smoking tobacco have been common knowledge for centuries. From sharpening mental acuity to maintaining optimal weight, the relatively small risks of smoking have always been outweighed by the substantial improvement to mental and physical health. Hysterical attacks on tobacco notwithstanding, smokers always weigh the good against the bad and puff away or quit according to their personal preferences.
Now the same anti-tobacco enterprise that has spent billions demonizing the pleasure of smoking is providing additional reasons to smoke. Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Tourette's Syndrome, even schizophrenia and cocaine addiction are disorders that are alleviated by tobacco. Add in the still inconclusive indication that tobacco helps to prevent colon and prostate cancer and the endorsement for smoking tobacco by the medical establishment is good news for smokers and non-smokers alike. Of course the revelation that tobacco is good for you is ruined by the pharmaceutical industry's plan to substitute the natural and relatively inexpensive tobacco plant with their overpriced and ineffective nicotine substitutions. Still, when all is said and done, the positive revelations regarding tobacco are very good reasons indeed to keep lighting those cigarettes.

Does maternal smoking hinder mother-child transmission of Helicobacter pylori infection? - "Evidence for early childhood as the critical period of Helicobacter pylori infection and for clustering of the infection within families suggests a major role of intrafamilial transmission. In a previous study, we found a strong inverse relation between maternal smoking and H. pylori infection among preschool children, suggesting the possibility that mother-child transmission of the infection may be less efficient if the mother smokes. To evaluate this hypothesis further, we carried out a subsequent population-based study in which H. pylori infection was measured by 13C-urea breath test in 947 preschool children and their mothers. We obtained detailed information on potential risk factors for infection, including maternal smoking, by standardized questionnaires. Overall, 9.8% (93 of 947) of the children and 34.7% (329 of 947) of the mothers were infected. Prevalence of infection was much lower among children of uninfected mothers (1.9%) than among children of infected mothers (24.7%). There was a strong inverse relation of children's infection with maternal smoking (adjusted odds ratio = 0.24; 95% confidence interval = 0.12-0.49) among children of infected mothers, but not among children of uninfected mothers. These results support the hypothesis of a predominant role for mother-child transmission of H. pylori infection, which may be less efficient if the mother smokes. ". Click here for more information on smoking and pregnancy.
Risk of papillary thyroid cancer in women in relation to smoking and alcohol consumption. - "Both smoking and alcohol consumption may influence thyroid function, although the nature of these relations is not well understood. We examined the influence of tobacco and alcohol use on risk of papillary thyroid cancer in a population-based case-control study. Of 558 women with thyroid cancer diagnosed during 1988-1994 identified as eligible, 468 (83.9%) were interviewed; this analysis was restricted to women with papillary histology (N = 410). Controls (N = 574) were identified by random digit dialing, with a response proportion of 73.6%. We used logistic regression to calculate odds ratios (OR) and associated confidence intervals (CI) estimating the relative risk of papillary thyroid cancer associated with cigarette smoking and alcohol consumption. A history of ever having smoked more than 100 cigarettes was associated with a reduced risk of disease (OR = 0.7, 95% CI = 0.5-0.9). This reduction in risk was most evident in current smokers (OR = 0.5, 95% CI = 0.4-0.7).
Women who reported that they had ever consumed 12 or more alcohol-containing drinks within a year were also at reduced risk (OR 0.7, 95% CI = 0.5-1.0). Similar to the association noted with smoking, the reduction in risk was primarily present among current alcohol consumers. The associations we observed, if not due to chance, may be related to actions of cigarette smoking and alcohol consumption that reduce thyroid cell proliferation through effects on thyroid stimulating hormone, estrogen, or other mechanisms. "
Urinary Cotinine Concentration Confirms the Reduced Risk of Preeclampsia with Tobacco Exposure - This study, though small, shows one of the benefits of smoking during pregnancy. "These findings, obtained by using laboratory assay, confirm the reduced risk of developing preeclampsia with tobacco exposure. (Am J Obstet Gynecol 1999;181:1192-6.) " Click here for more information on smoking and pregnancy.
Fact Sheet on Smoking and Alzheimer's - From Forest UK.
Smokers have reduced risks of Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease - Of the 19 studies, 15 found a reduce risk in smokers, and none found an increased risk. And smoking is clearly associated with a reduced risk of Parkinson's disease, another disease in which nicotine receptors are reduced. The fact that acute administration of nicotine improves attention and information processing in AD patients adds further plausibility to the hypothesis.
The Puzzling Association between Smoking and Hypertension during Pregnancy - This large study has examined nearly 10,000 pregnant women. Conclusion: "Smoking is associated with a reduced risk of hypertension during pregnancy. The protective effect appears to continue even after cessation of smoking. Further basic research on this issue is warranted. (Am J Obstet Gynecol 1999;181:1407-13.) " Click here for more information on smoking and pregnancy.
Smoking: Protection Against Neural Tube Defects? - Swedish researchers have some surprising news for pregnant women who smoke: a decreased risk of neural tube defects in babies. Click here for more information on smoking and pregnancy.


That was simply to show that there are other viewpoints and other research and if the money and skills used to present the anti smoking view had been used on that side you would all be puffing away happily.

But you don't do happiness do you?
0 Replies
 
Mathos
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 12:05 pm
Spendi, you are clutching at straws!

Talking to a friend of mine in the political fraternity of life today, he mentioned that the next stage regarding drinking alcohol was in progress! They are going to make it illegal to drink in public places, parks, beaches, street, etc etc. Higher the legal age from 18 to 21..That's good isn't it, old enough to legally kill but not permitted to have a beer because the government consider you too young!


This is the New Control Government Spendi, Might is Right..
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 12:45 pm
Not quite yet old bean.

They have forgotten the INTERNET. All it takes is a leader. Organise a nationwide smoke-in, like the Save the Earth silliness without the silliness and in-yer-face hypocrisy.

The National Smoke 20 fags in a pub Day.

We all get arrested, we all refuse to pay fines, we all get sent to prison.

I don't think so do you? The FTSE will collapse.

I'm not against anyone banning smoking on their own premises BTW.

Think of the money the medical bureaucracy will make out of long-term degenerative brain disorders. I should think it will be the whole national cake in thirty years. Unless they bring in administrative terminations of course.
0 Replies
 
Mathos
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 12:59 pm
The Happy Scotsman...Pub in Blackpool, the Landlord has point blank refused to tell anyone they can't smoke, so the punters have been smoking!

The smoke catcher General and his men went in today! Three punters fined on the spot £50 each! Landlord being taken to Court, advised he faces A FINE OF £2500..00

Like I said mate, MIGHT IS RIGHT!

If Matthew was the Smoke Catcher General, the poor sod would be burning on the beach tonight.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 02:47 pm
spendius wrote:
Quote:

THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS OF SMOKING AND NICOTINE.

Smoking lowers Parkinson's disease risk - More evidence that smoking fights Parkinson - "A new study adds to the previously reported evidence that cigarette smoking protects against Parkinson's disease.


Its true it protects against alzheimers, parkinsons disease heart disease multiple sclerosis etc. because it ****ing kills you before they do.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 02:55 pm
you know spends what really annoys me about you is your game playing. You are far too intelligent to actually believe the crap you come out with. You just do it to provoke a response from those you consider the lesser mortals with whom you like to toy. Its just play for you. Nothing is serious. Nothing is really meant. And nothing you post reveals anything about you.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 03:36 pm
My very first post, which was my member profile, unchanged to this day, and my only username, likewise unchanged, tell an intelligent person more about me than all your posts past and future will ever reveal about you.

You are talking about superficial "knowing".

I haven't the faintest idea, and nor do I care, whether or not smoking inhibits degenerate brain conditions or any other condition. I am just showing that some scientists say it does and that you lot have picked the scientists to believe who you want to believe and rolled out a money-spinning bandwagon on the strength of it which I think will bankrupt the country unless it is stopped. Just as a similar death fear bankrupted ancient Egypt and left it prostrate at the feet of an invader.

I think cancer is caused by weakened immune systems. And loss of self-respect is a major cause of those. And I would feel like a gobbin if I believed one lot of scientists whose cash interest I can easily see and called the others crap.

I do know that non-smokers are boring though.

It's pub time. I'm hoping there are more in than has been of late. It's as if there's a typhoid scare on.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 05:07 pm
But really-when all is said and done- it is so humiliating.

The idea that I need a bunch of scientists, whose motives I can easily determine from an honest appraisal of my own, to tell me how to live is just about as humiliating as humiliating gets.

It is as if I have no brains of my own and that is detrimental to my self-respect and anything of that nature is bound to affect the immune system and leave me vulnerable to whatever comes first.

The very idea that these f*****g boffins know better than I do how I should live my one and only life is so far off my agenda as to be out of f*****g sight.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2007 02:50 am
spendius wrote:
But really-when all is said and done- it is so humiliating.

The idea that I need a bunch of scientists, whose motives I can easily determine from an honest appraisal of my own, to tell me how to live is just about as humiliating as humiliating gets.

It is as if I have no brains of my own and that is detrimental to my self-respect and anything of that nature is bound to affect the immune system and leave me vulnerable to whatever comes first.

The very idea that these f*****g boffins know better than I do how I should live my one and only life is so far off my agenda as to be out of f*****g sight.


Spendy, don't take on so. It's not as bad as all that.

Look at it this way: I can't show my backside in Burton's window. It is contrary to social norms. But I can still remove my trousers, under certain circumstances.

You can still smoke. But not in a public, enclosed space. The world has not stopped turning. Carry on with the self-abuse, if that is your wish.
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2007 02:55 am
Glad to know you can still remove your trousers in certain circs, McT, and hope that doing so isn't as injurious to your health as smoking. I liked the thing yesterday about Smoke on Trent who'd forgotten to get the requisite paperwork done to enforce the ban!
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2007 06:27 am
Quote:
Backing for UK waters smoking ban
11 July 2007 | 14:35

PROPOSALS to ban smoking on all ships sailing in UK waters have been greeted with widespread support.

With new restrictions on smoking in public places now in force, ministers are now looking at putting in place a similar ban on all vessels with crews and passengers sailing up to 12 miles off the coast and on inland waterways.

It would not just apply to UK registered ships but to ships of any flags, and those visiting Felixstowe and other UK ports come from all over the world

Following a consultation exercise on the idea, the government is now set to follow it up with a set of draft regulations for further comment this autumn and hopes to bring in a new law next year.

"We received a very positive reaction to our plans to introduce restrictions to sea going and inland waterways vessels," said a Department of Transport spokesman.

"Very few respondents took issue with the proposals and most clearly recognised the health benefits associated with reduced exposure to second hand smoke and were keen to see clear unambiguous regulations introduced."

The consultation asked for comments on how the rules should be enforced and what penalties should apply.

Lawyers have assured government it will be within its rights to enforce smoking bans on ships of other nations sailing in UK waters.

The consultation received 45 responses from interested organisations in the maritime industry - with 40 supporting the proposals.

It was felt by some that while smoking in work and communal areas, including sleeping quarters, should be banned, there would still need to be areas on board where people could smoke away from fellow seafarers - especially as people stay on ships for months.

However, it was felt some vessels were unsuitable for smoking on deck and in some cases smoking on deck is fully restricted.

One idea to be investigated is the possibility of designating some cabins for smokers.

"There was agreement amongst most consultees that the benefits would not only include the improved health of workers but would also lead to a more pleasant working environment," said the Dft spokesman.

"Most felt that this would be difficult to quantify in money but in any case would outweigh any potential costs identified.

"The costs were considered to be minimal unless modifications were needed to the structure of a vessel to provide adequate ventilation for areas where smoking is permitted."

Shipping union Nautilus UK felt workers should be protected from second hand smoke wherever they are in the world and that other Health and Safety legislation does not stop applying once a vessel has left UK territorial waters.


Viewers might notice that this whole Kafkaesque nightmare into which they are enthusiastically diving is posited on this one thing-

Quote:
the health benefits associated with reduced exposure to second hand smoke


which is an unsupported assertion.

And if-

Quote:
there would still need to be areas on board where people could smoke away from fellow seafarers


Why can't pubs have a similar convenience?

I'll tell you why. It is because non-smoking rooms in pubs where there are also smoking rooms do not pay because nobody enjoys spending the evening in the company of non-smokers. Not even non-smokers.

The economic evidence is that non-smokers cannot sustain a pub industry so it is fair to assume that pubs are on the way out because the fewer customers they have the higher the prices they need to charge and a downward spiral is bound to set in.

Your future is on the couch with the cans and separated from communal discourse which is exactly where they want you and the objective of these policies.

And the freedoms all those heroes died for is shredded on the basis of two lies put out by a conspiracy of self-interested, often self appointed, busybodies whose hearts go pitter-patterpitter-patter if somebody bursts a paper bag and who have taken over our governmental instiutions and media centres and are set to wring your f****ng necks. You will be free to be little goody-goodies.

And if you encourage them, or even sit quiet, they will do as Max Weber pointed out over 100 years ago.

Quote:
Don't be a good little, good little boy
Being as good as you can
And agreeing with all the mealy-mouthed, mealy mouthed truths
That the sly trot to protect themselves
And their greedy mouthed, greedy mouthed cowardice.
Every old lout.


D.H. Lawrence. (From memory so might contain trace errors)
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2007 05:44 pm
Quote:
Cancer can develop in the lungs in two ways. It can start in the lung (primary lung cancer), or it can spread there from a primary cancer elsewhere in the body. If a cancer spreads to the lungs from another part of the body, this is known as secondary or metastatic lung cancer.

Cancerous tumours are made up of millions of cells. Some of these cells may break away from the primary cancer and travel in the bloodstream or the lymphatic system to another part of the body, in this case the lungs. Although any type of cancer can spread to the lung, the most common types to spread to this area are cancers of the large bowel (colon and rectum), breast, bladder, testicle, stomach, gullet (oesophagus), kidney (renal), and a type of skin cancer called malignant melanoma.


Obviously, if one could link them all to passive smoking by constant repetitive assertion, like Goebells explained in his "How to" book, one might have the whole nation running around like silly buggers which is the very epitome of the technique known as the "practical joke" or the "wind-up". And, as a bonus, avoid having to explain the cause of the primary cancers. And, as the icing on the cake, make a fortune as well whilst looking like 50,000 Florence Nightingales all rolled into one coincentrated loci of pure virtuous concern for other human beings such as the baby strapped to the back of its mum for twelve hours so you can all have bargains in the shops.

Once they banned media advertising tobacco products then the rest is simple, straightforward and not unexpected. Just imagine a bloke spending £40 a week, nearly all tax, and media not being able to get at it in the same way they can get at spending on cars and disinfectants and banking services and stair lifts and remote controlled garage doors.

The smoker became a pariah as soon as media couldn't get a percentage out of him. Obviously. He was reducing their profits and that's subversive as far as media is concerned.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2007 06:01 pm
And it's a toss up whether alcohol or saturated fat abusers will become the next pariahs.

I saw a bloke today at a roadworks cutting a kerbstone in half with one of those Stihl saws and a whole cloud of concrete dust was enveloping him and drifting into the air conditioning intakes of the motorists passing by. If he gets lung cancer in the future it will be either because he smoked or had once seen a photograph of somebody having a fag.

He was working for the council which has just been granted the power by Royal Assent to humiliate us, and our heroic dead, in a blitz of do-gooding and lucrative self-importance.

No wonder half the population say they would leave if they could find somewhere promising to go.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2007 01:31 am
You can get a Stihl saw attachment which sprays water on the workpiece so the dust is controlled.

My uncle died of silicosis from his work as a marble mason. Nasty.

I saw a building being demolished in Nuremberg by one of these huge hydraulic peckers and there was a man with a water hose too, spraying the wall so no dust escaped. How unlike here.

Goebbels is spelt like that. T H A T

It looks like Spendy was right. Yesterday on the news they were discussing proposals to tax fattening food. That's my favourite kind, too.

Oh well, I 'xpect it's for my own good. :wink:
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2007 04:22 am
Mac wrote-

Quote:
You can get a Stihl saw attachment which sprays water on the workpiece so the dust is controlled.


We know that Mac. The point was that the self-same council that is responsible for that blokes dire and well-proven dangerous working conditions is exactly the same one that is running officiously wild humiliating us all, non-smokers as well, on the basis of two bare-assed lies which seems to me proof that it isn't saving lives that is their priority but creating themselves jobs where they can officiously boss us all to no effect except to put up the council tax. That bloke is probably cutting kerbstones on a daily, or even hourly, basis. I have seen that scene many times.

My info about secondary cancer came from someone in NHS admin who said that most lung cancers were secondaries.

Eating more than 20g a day of saturated fat is a bigger problem by miles than passive smoking. It is just that these busybodies will have to take on the agricultural and food processing and distribution industries rather than the sapped-out powerless proles to do anything about it. As they haven't so far one can only assume that they are bullies as well.

Another bit of info I have from large scale American research is that if your cholesterol level is above 3.9 you are getting sicker every minute that goes by. Mine is 3.4 and I got it down from 4.8 without giving up smoking moderately. It is ridiculous to class 10 a day roll-your-owners with 60 a day packet shiters together as smokers and forget all about other aspects of the latter's lifestyles unless you want to get an officiousness bandwagon rolling.
0 Replies
 
Dorothy Parker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2007 09:07 am
I won an excellence award at my graduation thing the other day! I'm very happy!

Got a likkle trophy n everyfink!

(they hadn't put my name on it though so I'll have to do it myself - bit mean innit?)

All this smoking talk is just making me want a cig.

How is everyone then?
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2007 09:21 am
Hearty Congratulations, DP! Hope you find a good etcher.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2007 09:21 am
Nice one, DP.

Any chance of a shampoo 'n' set?

(I trust your salon is smoke-free)

Bored today. Heavy rain out. I've got a bad cold too. Dash it all.
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2007 09:23 am
No rain here!!!! Mirabile dictu!
But heavy cloud and thunderstorms predicted for Sunday when I've got 18 people coming to lunch Sad
0 Replies
 
 

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