THE BRITISH THREAD II

We like to talk about our cousins in the USA. We think of them as part of the great big British family, although kind of prodigal sons.

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Does that include Scots as well?

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georgeob1 wrote:

George Bush looked a bit like Obama in 2000

Hu???

Only for die hard republicans.. Twisted Evil

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georgeob1 wrote:

Does that include Scots as well?

I am British when it suits me, otherwise Scots.

:wink:

He who founded the bank of England? A Scotsman, that's who.

Who helped Napoleon lose at Waterloo? Scots.

Who founded the American Navy? A Scot.

Where does the Queen watch racing? Ascot.

We rock.

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Actually, the American navy was founded by an Irishman, John Barry - not that syphilitic Scot buried at the Naval Academy.

I believe the decisive aid to Wellington at Waterloo came from a Prussian - Blucher, who carried more of the sequence of battles than is generally acknowledged by British historians.

What in the hell does Francis know about "die hard Republicans" or the 2000 campaign for that matter? My description of the more or less equivalent vaguery of the rhetoric of the two candidates was accurate - and it captures what I believe will be the chief reservation voters have with respect to Obama. (Cause for concern remains, though - the last time the American public was in the grip of such a distemper, we elected that idiot Jimmy Carter.)

I apologise for this riff into such a subject here - that was not my original intent.

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George - Most of my life I dealt with people who said about every other people: he knows nothing.

After profound thinking and checking the reality of such assumptions, I came to the conclusion that, well, the truth is in the eye of the beholder, to say the least...

I stand my case.

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You see? As soon as you let foreigners meddle in stuff, discord breaks out.

But I can't have my two pals falling out.

George- remember Lafayette.

Francis- remember John Wayne. Or George C Scott.

Now shake.

Thank you.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Actually, the American navy was founded by an Irishman, John Barry - not that syphilitic Scot buried at the Naval Academy.

Actually, the United State's Naval History Centre (oops: Center) stores besides other most interesting items online .... a slightly different view: The Birth of the Navy of the United States

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I don't ask you to change your views on the matter - instead, I suggest that your claimed projection into the minds of "die-hard republicans" might involve a leap beyond what you likely know well. No point arguing the matter, because such self described groups have no objective definition anyway, and the result is a meaningless tautology.

I certainly don't wish to suggest that you "know nothing" about this matter or any other. However, even in my own fulminations and musings about European politics, I usually stop short of claiming knowledge of the perspectives and viewpoints of others.

Perspective is certainly in the eye of the beholder - however, I'm not yet willing to give up on objective reality, however difficullt it may be to know it.

Finally, I do think my point about the oddly similar vaguery of the political rhetoric of Bush 2000 and Obama 2008 is both insightful and clever.

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George- you must know more about this that me, but evidently more people that me are labouring under the apprehension that John Paul Jones was "Father of the American Navy".

FATHER OF THE AMERICAN NAVY

Later he received a gold sword and the Order of Military Merit from Louis XVI. He became the toast of Paris and a bust of him was commissioned. Jones had another 20 made to send to his friends. In 1781 he returned to America in the 'Ariel' and Congress passed a vote of thanks to him for the way he had sustained the honour of the American fleet He was to be given command of the 'America' which was still under construction and was to be the largest ship in the American navy but eventually this was denied him and he spent the remaining years of the war advising on the establishment of the navy and the training of naval officers"

Perhaps "founder" was a claim too far.

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McTag wrote:

You see? As soon as you let foreigners meddle in stuff, discord breaks out.

But I can't have my two pals falling out.

George- remember Lafayette.

Francis- remember John Wayne. Or George C Scott.

Now shake.

Thank you.

Typical Brit gesture of friendship! Lafayette and John Wayne ! (On second thought, both were actors. DeGrasse was the real French hero of our revolution.)

I have only the highest regard for my friend, Francis - a gentleman of unusual erudition, restraint and grace. I maintain this regard even in the face of his arch Gallic disposition to occasionally put a finger in my eye.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Actually, the American navy was founded by an Irishman, John Barry - not that syphilitic Scot buried at the Naval Academy.

Was this the "syphilitic Scot" referred to? He has been honoured by your navy historians, at least.

http://www.history.navy.mil/bios/jones_jp.htm

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McTag wrote:

George- you must know more about this that me, but evidently more people that me are labouring under the apprehension that John Paul Jones was "Father of the American Navy".

FATHER OF THE AMERICAN NAVY

Later he received a gold sword and the Order of Military Merit from Louis XVI. He became the toast of Paris and a bust of him was commissioned. Jones had another 20 made to send to his friends. In 1781 he returned to America in the 'Ariel' and Congress passed a vote of thanks to him for the way he had sustained the honour of the American fleet He was to be given command of the 'America' which was still under construction and was to be the largest ship in the American navy but eventually this was denied him and he spent the remaining years of the war advising on the establishment of the navy and the training of naval officers"

Perhaps "founder" was a claim too far.

The matter is still in some dispute here. Barry was the first Commissioned Captain of a ship in the Continental navy and had a much more substantial role in the development of the Navy than did the perpetually dissatisfied J.P. Jones, who soon after the revolution entered the service of the Russian Navy. Here is an excerpt from Wickopedia ----

Quote:

John Barry (1745 - 13 September 1803) was an officer in the Continental Navy during the American Revolutionary War and later in the United States Navy. Barry was born in Tacumshane, County Wexford, Ireland and appointed a Captain in the Continental Navy 7 December 1775.

Naval service
He commanded Lexington and Alliance. He and his crew of the Alliance fought and won the final naval battle of the American Revolution off the coast of Cape Canaveral on March 10, 1783. He was seriously wounded 29 May 1781 while in command of Alliance during her capture of HMS Atalanta and Trepassey. Barry was successful in suppressing three mutinies during his career as an officer in the Continental Navy.

Appointed senior captain upon the establishment of the U.S. Navy, he commanded the frigate United States in the Quasi-War with France. Barry authored a Signal Book published in 1780 to improve communications at sea among vessels traveling in formation. Barry also suggested the creation of a Department of the Navy with separate cabinet status from the Secretary of War. This was finally realized with the formation of the United States Department of the Navy in 1798. Barry's suggestions about establishing government-operated navy yards were also realized, and in particular he had a hand in the establishment of the Brooklyn Navy Yard. His 17-year span of national service and his training of so many of the heroes of the War of 1812 under Barry's tutelage earned him the sobriquet, "Father of the Navy."

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georgeob1 wrote:

I maintain this regard even in the face of his arch Gallic disposition to occasionally put a finger in my eye.

Which I do, George, in a very friendly way. The latter being very uncommon from my part towards a right winger.

Ok, guys let's pursue the historical digression..

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Francis wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
I maintain this regard even in the face of his arch Gallic disposition to occasionally put a finger in my eye.

Which I do, George, in a very friendly way. The latter being very uncommon from my part towards a right winger.

Ok, guys let's pursue the historical digression..

I guess that means that sometimes he isn't the aggressive eye scratcher that he usually is.

But am I really a "right winger"?? Slightly conservative perhaps, but always sympathetic and fair.

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You can't invent a navy George. We did that. Properly I mean. You just copied us and others. You can give it a name and an organisation. That's okay.

First you have no navy. Just a bunch of sod-busters and the adventurers who follow them around like seagulls follow a trawler, a famous French expression here. Then you had a Navy. Now you've got aNAVY!

What you have to do is try to image the thoughts and conversations and deals that led you to calling a disparate collection of the aforesaid adventurers, aided by a few bright-up-top sodbuster's sons, The Navy. That's how a navy is invented.

And it's some baby ain't it George? And the guy who has 2nd tier responsibility for it has responsibility for The Army and The Air Force as well. Who has 1st tier responsibility is of little consequence except when there's a balls-up. How could Mr Obamo possibly understand what's going on. What you need is a President who looks okay inspecting the Guards with H.M.Queen and for me Al Gore stands out a mile.

I used to cringe whenever I saw Mrs Thatcher inspecting a Guard of Honour. She used to scutter along as if she was in need of finding the LADIES.

Have you any records of how many candidates for President in the last fifty years had British surnames.

I've had a bit on him at 40-1. Should I risk more.

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Who, Al Gore?

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you got on obama at 40/1??

impressed.

George I dont think Obama's rhetoric and Bush jnr rhetoric can be compared. Well perhaps they can but its a little unfair dont you agree? So who are you going to go for, go on tell us, McCain or Hillary?

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40-1 Al Gore obviously.

He wouldn't be in the betting market if he had no chance. Mrs Thatcher was 12-1 before the first ballot. Sir Alec wasn't even in the betting. The Times ran a big (for them) headline "IT'S BUTLER" the very day it wasn't Butler. There's many a slip twixt cup and lip. These are people not bytes.

Mr Gore's credentials far outstrip those of any of the candidates. And he'll owe few favours. I hope you don't think they raise all that cash for their campaigns on the back of idealism. That would be naive. All his skeletons were examined when he was Veep.

I don't remember Mr Bush's rhetoric but Mr Obama's is meaningless from the little I've seen of it. His slim physical appearence is an affront to millions of obese Americans. He must be an ascetic in the midst of the food glut. He's one of the "Hope" candidates.

Anyway- I'm rooting for Mr Gore.

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spendius wrote:

... Mr Obama's is meaningless from the little I've seen of it. His slim physical appearence is an affront to millions of obese Americans.

just occasionally spendy..... Laughing

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THE BRITISH THREAD II

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