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DO YOU BELIEVE THAT ISRAEL WANTS PEACE?

 
 
Setanta
 
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2003 03:15 pm
This thread is actually Frolic's idea: Do you believe that Israeli wants peace? I've tried to set up the poll so as to give you the options implied by a question concerning so complex a question. Your comments please.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,402 • Replies: 17
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2003 03:29 pm
Yes, I believe Israel wants peace.
I believe their land grabs are out of fear, and are considered strategic defense positions.

I believe the govt is serious about the Roadmap, but I think they feel they are being held to a higher standard of compliance than the Palestinians.

(I'm sure everyone will agree with me :wink: )
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2003 03:36 pm
Hmm, I've never spoken to "Isreal". I think some Israelis want peace as the primary goal. I think some Israelis want peace but not at the cost of "greater Israel".

I think most of the official land grabs have been motivated out of security concerns but note that settlers obviously do it for different reasons.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2003 04:27 pm
The fundamental truth of the matter is that some Israelis do and some Israelis do not. Some Isreali truly believe that the Palistinians want to push them into the sea. Some Palestinians believe the same about the Israelis. How they will be able to reconcile these major differences is not going to wokr through any "Road Map." What needs to happen is that Palestinians must control all suicide bombers by whatever means it takes, and the Israeli's must completely stop expanding their settlements. I doubt either side is willing. c.i.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2003 04:46 pm
If this was Frolic's idea, I am so staying out of it...no offence.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2003 06:09 pm
Some do -- some don't.

Most do -- but only if certain conditions are met.

There ain't ever gonna be real peace over there -- even if things improve a great deal -- which I think they ain't gonna.

So it doesn't really matter.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2003 06:09 pm
That was all a guess, of course.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2003 07:43 pm
The options in the poll are excellent, very well thought out -- and make it a hard choice! I chose No, they will play... because I think there's deep ambivalence on both sides of this equation. Both peoples contain groups which are so full of hate (and profits from war) that they will make trouble. I'm very, very dubious about Sharon. I don't think the settlements are simply strategic, though I'm willing to believe that may have been the original intention. I also think the belief within Israel (generally speaking) is that "some day we'll have all 'our' territories back" and that this will prevail during and after the current phase, whether the "road map" approach is successful or not.
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frolic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2003 04:37 am
cavfancier wrote:
If this was Frolic's idea, I am so staying out of it...no offence.


Confused Confused Confused Do you have a problem with me?

My reaction came after the Israeli army killed a local leader of a militant group. Days after a cease fire was agreed. How hard is it to stop this illegal executions without a trial? I think some elements in the IDF dont want peace, same for some elements in the Sharon govt. The state of war makes them very powerfull and important. They wont give that up without a fight. A fight at the expences of the Israeli and Palestinian people. U can bet on it there will be a retaliation.

But the main difference people refuse to see is that the IDF is a state controlled army and Hamas, Jihad, Al Aqsa brigades,... are private militia. Hard to control and even harder to tackle.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2003 06:23 am
Nah, I don't have a problem with you frolic, I'm just well aware of your opinions on Israel and I choose not to discuss them, that's it. You, I think are a cool person. I just don't want to get sucked into the Israeli politics thing again.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2003 01:05 pm
The majority of the Israelis want peace and so do I expect do the Palestinians. They are all tired of the tit for tat which brings nothing but grief and hardship for all.
Frank,
Try for once look on the brighter side.
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mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2003 01:20 pm
This calls for opinion only, and most opinions are based on too many factors to count.

I believe Israel wants peace; I have always believed that was a paramount aim. And I believe the Palestinian guerilla groups don't. I further believe the whole situation there has been used for many years by many other countries - each with its own agenda, having nothing to do with the good and welfare of any of the people living there.

Peace doesn't mean living next door to what can becaome an enemy in the twinkling of an eye (look what happened in Nazi Germany, when neighbor turned against neightbor). Peace means to end as much as possible things like suicide bombing of innocents in the name of something that has lost meaning; to make the perpetrators of such actions responsible for their behavior. Almost every action Israel has taken has been a reaction.

Yes, I believe Israel wants peace. But I think a realistic peace as it concerns them - not as some other foreign power sees it for their own ends. There is a lot of romantic unreality ascribed to the Palestinians - just so long as others don't have to become involved.

The Arab countries could have done something long ago to help the Palestinians, but they didn't. So could many others, but they didn't. So today I think the circumstances are that the Israelis have to set many of the conditions, but my belief is that the israelis want a peaceful agreement far more than the Palestinians do.
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S jeff
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2003 07:26 am
Israel doesn't want the peace
Israel doesn't want the peace. Let's take a look at the history:
• Before 1948 Palestinians was living in their lands with Pease and there were many Jewish people living in the Arab lands as well as in Europe, U.S, and the other countries.
• In 1948 some Zionist Jewish came and occupied many Palestinians lands pretending that is the land god promised them.
• In 1967 they occupied all the rest of Palestine.

Arab now are just asking to take the part Israel occupied in 1967 and they going to leave the land the Jewish took in 1948 for Israelis to live in.
So, who wants the Pease? If Israelis wants peace, they can get it by stop killing Palestinians, destroying their houses, and eradicating their plants and trees. See the following link which has pics of Israeli peace.
http://hosting.menanet.net/~hab/hab/Gallary/Peace/Peace.htm
Alan Schechner a Jewish Israeli wrote "My time in the army included the ongoing humiliation and oppression of the Palestinian population of the Occupied Territories. This was achieved by an endless list of roadblocks, document checks, public humiliations, curfews and violent suppressions of free speech. One particularly painful memory for me is the night when I, together with my unit, was ordered to break into the houses of elderly Palestinians, overturn their belongings, desecrate their peace and peace of mind for no other reason than to let them know who was boss. As part of an invading force in Lebanon, I saw first hand the evils of collective punishment. I saw whole communities destroyed because of the action of one individual, I saw a beautiful country destroyed by the megalomaniac desires of Ariel Sharon, whose already bloodstained hands are visible again in these latest troubles." For more click on the link http://genug.weblogs.com/stories/storyReader$47
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frolic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2003 02:22 pm
If the Israeli want to set the Middle East on fire they should expell/kill Arafat.

He is the cement of Palestinian society. He keeps all the different factions together When he's gone there's only Hamas. And we all know what language they speak. I know the hawks in the Sharon cabinet prefer a civil war in Palestinia. But what if Hamas wins that war? Think about it, would Israel be a safer country? Is Palestinia without Arafat better for Israël?
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2003 02:23 pm
frolic wrote:
Is Palestinia without Arafat better for Israël?


For Israeli security, no. For Israeli expantionism, yes.
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frolic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2003 02:29 pm
What's the reaction of the Bush Govt on this new step in the Israeli roadmap to total destruction of the peaceplan?
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2003 02:30 pm
They call it "unhelpful". they note that Arafat is "not part of the solution but part of the problem" but think exiling him is a bad idea.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2003 02:39 pm
I think that many Israeli and Palestinians want peace. I also think that the Israeli and Palestinian leadership wants is not peace, but victory. There is a difference.
"Mr." Tart, we agree again.
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