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Questions: Religion, man and God

 
 
lsatwd
 
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 06:49 am
hmm i got a few questions...mainly geared towards christians but anyone can answer too i guess.

My first question is on the popular debate between "Evolutionism vs Creationism." It always seems like such a huge debate going on, with some people pitting science against religion, and religion against science... What i don't understand is, "Why the fight?"

The creationists says, "God created life" while science says, "atoms formed complex molecules which formed simple cells that eventually evolved into life as we know it."

But here's the thing... If a person believes that God created man and nature, then wouldnt it also make sense that atoms/cells fall within the realm of nature? That is, if a person believe in both evolutionism and creationism, they would see evolution as merely the way God created life. In the end, this would still fulfill the belief that life was created by God; So how then do so many people view science as an opposing idea against God?

My next question is on the idea of a 'savior religion,' that is, the idea that there is only one true religion. As far as i was taught, when God first presented himself to people, he merely asked them to believe in him. I don't believe God ever gave a pronounced declaration to form any named "church" or "religion." I've always believed that religion, as an instituition, is only the creation of man to better organize themselves. And somewhere along the way people began to confuse religion for God himself; various doctrines were passed by people running the instituitions and these were passed off as God's own. I believe that churches and religions represent Man more so than it actually represents God. That being said, we all know the corruption of the Catholic church as well as others during the past (13th-18th century comes to mind). It was done by corrupt people in spots of power and represents how teachings can be skewed to represent the wishing of man. So i guess my question is: How does everyone else view their church? Do you see it as a direct representation of God's will, Mans will or maybe a mixture of both? Also, what do you feel about the general negative attitude towards gay people that christians hold? Do you think it represents God's stance or do you think its an attitude formed from human discrimination, passed on as Gods?

My next question involves a story/back ground information first. I'm a Catholic so i believe in the Virgin Mary. According to some sources, Mary has appeared all over the world. Each time she appears to someone, she'll often be seen dressed in that person's cultural garb. For example, sitings of Mary in Mexico reports her wearing traditional mexican garb, while sitings of her in Vietnam report her wearing the the vietnamese dress. In short, it is often said she appears to people within their cultural image -- perhaps to form better communication/understanding with whomever she appears to.

I believe God operates on a similar level on a much more vast scale. There are many religions out there - not all christian - that preaches similar ideas and seek to better people and society. I believe God may have presented himself in many different forms to people all across the globe. Or maybe it was the other way around; God facelessly presented himself to people throughout the globe and from there people placed various different faces on God. Which ever it is, i believe God communicates to people within their cultural system -- and does not care whether christian or not. He might appear to someone within their recognizable form of "God." In other words, i believe God is beyond image and religion and endorses all his people regardless of culture. So what do you guys think about these ideas? Possible? Not at all? Blasphemy?
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 01:22 pm
Welcome lsatwd.

I notice that you have had no replies as yet. A piece of advice would be to split your opost up into separate simple questions, and to wait for a few replies before you gave your own ideas.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 04:57 pm
Yes.

I read through this, but I couldn't find an opening for a reply, so I let it be.

And another piece of advice. Brace yourself. You might face some heavy resistance to your ideas. :wink:

Welcome btw.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 03:40 pm
Isat

What do you mean when you say "god"?
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 10:22 pm
I personally see no problem with believing in Christianity, and believing in evolution. As you say, it 'may' have been God's way of creating the world.

It is important to note though, that evolution requires as much 'faith' as creationism does, for there is not one iota of evidence to back up macro evolution (that is, a bird becoming a fish etc). There is evidence to back up natural selection and micro evolution (ie. a bird becoming another species of similar looking bird...but just unable to interbreed).

I've no doubt that there are 'errors' in the bible. It pretty much admits it itself when it says that the writing are inspired by God. Most people take this to mean the messages are infallible, but that is not at all what the bible claims about itself...it's only claim to accuracy as the 'word of God' is 'inspired'. The people receiving inspiration were still human, looking at the world through their own upbringing, cultural experiences, and all the preconcieved thoughts and prejudices that go with that.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Feb, 2007 04:43 am
vikorr

What about the findings of remnants of legs on some whales?

Could it not be that what you refer to as macro evolution is just micro evolution over an immense period of time?
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Foley
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Feb, 2007 08:59 pm
Cyracuz wrote:
What do you mean when you say "god"?

You ask everyone that!:wink:

vikorr wrote:
I've no doubt that there are 'errors' in the bible. It pretty much admits it itself when it says that the writing are inspired by God. Most people take this to mean the messages are infallible, but that is not at all what the bible claims about itself...it's only claim to accuracy as the 'word of God' is 'inspired'. The people receiving inspiration were still human, looking at the world through their own upbringing, cultural experiences, and all the preconcieved thoughts and prejudices that go with that.

I'm so proud of you! I've tried to reason with some Christians, but it always seems like they like to make the Bible their God, not really God.

Cyracuz wrote:
Could it not be that what you refer to as macro evolution is just micro evolution over an immense period of time?

QFE. At vikorr: Without a sun, God's day could have been as long as he wanted. Is it not possible that before he made the sun, he made the universe through evolution?

Although this also contradicts science, I like to take one step at a time rather than suggest the Adam and Eve story is wrong. People tend not to like that :wink:
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Feb, 2007 07:16 pm
Yes, Foley, I do ask that question a lot. Seems to me it is appropriate. People often start talking to me about god, assuming that we're on the same page when it comes to what we're actually talking about. It's not as if the concept is something simple, like a shovel or a monkeywrench.


And what if the adam and eve story is not wrong?

What if it's a metaphorical tale of cytogenesis? Adam not the first human, but the first biological life-form. An objection I often get when proposing this is that the story says there were already other animals created when adam and eve were made. But that might not be how the original tale was. Or it might be part of the metaphor. Who knows?

In any case I am pretty sure that we have to take the bible as a metaphor.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Feb, 2007 12:16 am
Re: Questions: Religion, man and God
lsatwd wrote:
hmm i got a few questions...mainly geared towards christians but anyone can answer too i guess.

My first question is on the popular debate between "Evolutionism vs Creationism." It always seems like such a huge debate going on, with some people pitting science against religion, and religion against science... What i don't understand is, "Why the fight?"


This is a big debate to theists. But to me, and biologists at large, there is no more a debate about evolution than there is about erosion. Both are clearly part of the natural processes of the world.

SOME theists think the fact that evolution does not require magic to explain biodiversity is somehow an attack on their religion. Go figure.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Feb, 2007 05:53 am
Eorl

Maybe these theists don't like it that the world can be explained without their religion, and so they desperately try to find a place for it.
0 Replies
 
rockpie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Feb, 2007 07:50 am
people always get muddled up about the creation story because of the way it has been translated. the hebrew word ''yowm'' has been commonly translated into the word ''day'' for the english bible. however, it is not referring to a 24 hour period. the definition of ''yowm'' is a long period of time in which events may occur. all 7 of God's days could have been different lengths of time. for example day one could have been 2 hours long and day 6 may have been 36 hours long. it's just been confused because as soon as you attempt to translate scripture from it's original language, you lose meanings and definitions that are vital to understanding what it is trying to say.

i like the phrase ''science answers how something works. religion answers why.''
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Feb, 2007 06:41 pm
rockpie, yes....religion invents the questions and the answers to them.

Cyracuz, yes exactly.
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