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Tue 2 Jan, 2007 11:10 pm
What arguments give the (presumed) spiritual advisor (self appointed, officially appointed, or otherwise) of an organized (or disorganized!) religion the claim of a proprietary access to the ear of god, over some other individual or group of the same religion?
Presumably God does:
God wrote:Numbers 12
Listen to my words:
"When a prophet of the LORD is among you,
I reveal myself to him in visions,
I speak to him in dreams.
7 But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.
8 With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the LORD.
Or not:
God wrote:Jeremiah 23
16 This is what the LORD Almighty says:
"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
they fill you with false hopes.
They speak visions from their own minds,
not from the mouth of the LORD.
17 They keep saying to those who despise me,
'The LORD says: You will have peace.'
And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts
they say, 'No harm will come to you.'
18 But which of them has stood in the council of the LORD
to see or to hear his word?
Who has listened and heard his word?
25 "I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, 'I had a dream! I had a dream!' 26 How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds? 27 They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their fathers forgot my name through Baal worship. 28 Let the prophet who has a dream tell his dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?" declares the LORD. 29 "Is not my word like fire," declares the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?
30 "Therefore," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me. 31 Yes," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, 'The LORD declares.' 32 Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," declares the LORD. "They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least," declares the LORD.
False Oracles and False Prophets
33 "When these people, or a prophet or a priest, ask you, 'What is the oracle of the LORD ?' say to them, 'What oracle? I will forsake you, declares the LORD.' 34 If a prophet or a priest or anyone else claims, 'This is the oracle of the LORD,' I will punish that man and his household. 35 This is what each of you keeps on saying to his friend or relative: 'What is the LORD's answer?' or 'What has the LORD spoken?' 36 But you must not mention 'the oracle of the LORD ' again, because every man's own word becomes his oracle and so you distort the words of the living God, the LORD Almighty, our God. 37 This is what you keep saying to a prophet: 'What is the LORD's answer to you?' or 'What has the LORD spoken?' 38 Although you claim, 'This is the oracle of the LORD,' this is what the LORD says: You used the words, 'This is the oracle of the LORD,' even though I told you that you must not claim, 'This is the oracle of the LORD.' 39 Therefore, I will surely forget you and cast you out of my presence along with the city I gave to you and your fathers. 40 I will bring upon you everlasting disgrace?-everlasting shame that will not be forgotten."
Matthew wrote:
24:23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect?-if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
I don't know how people are supposed to distinguish between true prophets and false ones. Might be best to just ignore them all.
That would suggest the Christian bible is contradictory on organized religion, wouldn't it?
As the wise man said, "Those who know, don't say, and those who say, don't know."
Even those who have a mind-shattering spiritual experience tend to interpret it within the context of their personal religion, and their personal religion consists of the dogmas, symbols, and myths they were inculcated with as children. That is not to discount spiritual experience; it simply means that the relating of spiritual experience can only be done through metaphors, or poetry and music. It's as big a mistake to assume that myths can only be taken literally as it is poetry.
As small children we are constantly in of what we might call a hypnotic state of mind and are open to messages being implanted by inculcating or through repitition. The problem is that when we grow up we think that we can only take these myths literally rather than metaphorically. There are two ways of taking any religious symbol or myth: Mosaically, that is literally; and Hermetically, that is metaphorically.
Quoth one of the faithful in the Life of Brian: "I say he is the Messiah, and I should know: I've followed a few!"
He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy.
(patiodog, don't get me started again. We've already confused a whole bunch of folks on that other thread. )
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