Problem with the governments attitude. Not the minority.

Re: Problem with the governments attitude. Not the minority.


Ah Queenie. 'Political correctness' is a label usually applied by conservatives to anything they perceive as 'liberal' concern for anyone else. It has no real meaning.

I could say abolishing slavery is political correctness - or allowing women the vote. The examples you give are multiculturalism I think.

You also make two assumptions that may not be correct:

1. The proprietors of the establishments you mention may well be christian/western.

2. There is aboslutely no reason why people from other cultures can't be 'politically correct' and put up decorations that celebrate an event popular in the nation they currently reside - regardless of their own culture.


Be careful of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Multiculturism. thats what i meant.

I never make myself clear on these topics.

What I meant was all this lark about appeasing muslims and not wearing crosses to work etc.

Queenie-

It is necessary to appease significant minorities especially when they are vocal, connected to vital interests abroad and are concentrated in certain areas where they are able to affect general election results. There may well come a time when MPs from constituencies with Muslim majorities hold the balance in the House of Commons.

It is likely that the decorations mentioned are purely in the service of commercial advantage if the shops are located where most of the population do celebrate Christmas.

PC is an aspect of media and officialdom. It hardly penetrates to the great unwashed if my experience is anything to go by.

The lady at the airport is probably just being provocative in order to draw attention to herself. I can't see why anyone feels a pressing need to display a cross about their person in their ordinary routines. A cross is, after all, an instrument of torture and is offensive to many other people besides Muslims.

The problem is here to stay, like the weather, so it makes no sense to bother about it and distract oneself from more important matters.

I give up.
I always get slated on these threads.

what i was SAYING was:
The majority of foreign people dont take offence to christmas.
So do why do some people make out they do?

To get attention of course.

You've answered your own question 'The majority don't take offence' - ergo a minority does. Also what makes you think they 'make out' their offence? Maybe they are offended - that's their right. Heaps of things offend me and I'm sure there are things that offend you (like people who take offence at christmas).

And please don't think you were being slated. I just wasn't sure what your point was - so I courageously I replied hoping not to be offensive - guess I blew that.

To rabble-rouse.

dw hingegead. xxx

Well my (very basic and uninformed) point of view is that, this is england. It was primarilly a christian country. We have been very kind (pushovers) to let so many foreign people live here, and to house them etc, and let them take our jobs. so since we have been so nice. then they can put up with christmas. the scrooges.

Actually im glad tony blair is finally taking a stand on this.
I have no problem with foreign people living in this country. Its just they are trying to change the country aren't they?

I just realsied that saying i agree with tony blair makes the title of this thread completely irrelevant.
Im such a hypocrite.

Rabble-rouser

I guarantee that Tony Blair just says that because he's appealing to a certain part of the British electorate that responds well to paranoia, racism and insularity - be wary of joining that group.

I know how young you are and you can't possibly know all sides of every argument (lord knows I'm an old fart and I know diddly squat) but if you're interested there is a wealth of information on the migration/assimilation debate.

In this quote you've highlighted some common misconceptions.



At the moment it's a christian country, it hasn't always been and won't necessarily always be.

I wouldn't say you were pushovers (neither would the 50 chinese who died in the back of a truck a few years back). And remember many of your migrants are from former colonies of Britain (colony means Britain attacked a place, subjugated and profited from its resources without fair recompense to the occupants - in other words - Brits were the worst kind of immigrant, and certainly not pushovers).

You yourself will have many immigrant ancestors - unless you're pure Celt (or whoever they migrated over the top of).

Another myth is that of immigrants taking jobs. This assumption is wrong on many levels. Firstly it assumes that there are a fixed number of jobs. It ignores that the number of jobs is a function of market size and more immigrants means a bigger market means more jobs. In addition immigrants tend to get the jobs no-one else wants - particularly when the population of the host nation is aging the way many western countries are. Immigration effectively means more good (read high-paying) jobs for educated english speaking people.

I could rabbit on for ages - and I'm sure others will, for both sides of the argument, but I for one, am deeply grateful that previous leaders of my country allowed and encouraged migration - of course being a descendant of a British immigrant may colour my view.

If it's any consolation - yes, they can put up with christmas - but remember many christians aren't particularly fond of the way the modern world celebrates it either.

Some readings if you're interested:

Myths and Migration from the Economist

Human Migration from Wikipedia

Hmm.
I don't know if i would agree with you that they aren't taking our jobs.
My ex boyfriend got the sack form his job because his employer decided to employ polish people instead because they were less expensive.

It has been a christian country for quite a long time, like 1500 years or somewhat.
If I went to Iraq I would accept the fact I have to cover up my arms and legs and maybe even face so as not to offend the people that live there.
Surely England would be given the same respect.

Also, surely it doesn't matter if Tony Blair only says what he says to please the public. The point is he's still saying it and therefore he's still sending out a message.

Forgive me for arguing back. Its good, because im learning stuff. Its amazing how wrong you can be.
Don't call yourself an old fart! Im sure you aren't xxxxx

Hmmm. Your boyfriends job. It might seem like they're taking your jobs at a micro level. On the macro level it isn't true. Of course the micro level hurts a lot more than the macro. Maybe your boyfriend will get a better job now? It can't have been much of a fun job if you can be undercut by cheap polish immigrants.

I read too much. 1500 years doesn't seem like a long time to me (macro gone mad). And immigrants do respect England. There aren't cows wandering round loose Hindu style. The iraqi expats don't shoot guns in the air to celebrate. It's a question of degree. If you were in Iraq would you complain because you couldn't get decent fish & chips (pardon the racial stereotype - I'm not being particularly serious).

Re Tony Blair's message - yep he's sending it and it's ringing true with people who I don't have much time for. I guess I'm just alerting you to the fact that you choose to believe what you want - but just because you read it in a paper or hear it from a PM doesn't mean it's true, or you should take it on board. Sorry if that's sounds patronising.

And there's nothing to forgive - this isn't argument, it's a sharing of opinions - mine aren't any more valid than yours.

Cheers.