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FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Sun 12 Jun, 2005 04:00 pm
UH-OH!

An interesting article from today's Sunday Telegraph:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/06/12/weu12.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/06/12/ixnewstop.html



Snippet..........

"'The euro was supposed to bring security but we cannot live like this'
By Toby Harnden in Rome
(Filed: 12/06/2005)

In his marbled office overlooking the Piazza Colonna, Roberto Calderoli, Italy's minister of welfare, held up a €20 note and cheerfully tore it in half. "If you like, I will put it through the shredder," he said.

He briefly contemplated setting fire to the note before concluding that this might be against Italian law. There could be no doubt about his feelings towards the euro.

Mr Calderoli's views would have been heresy at the start of 2002, when Italy enthusiastically embraced the single currency as interest rates halved and a boom was ushered in. Yet at the Campo de' Fiori market a few streets away, where the former monk Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake in 1600 for contending that the universe had no centre, hatred of the euro is a new orthodoxy.

"Look at this square," said Sonia Proietta, filling a paper bag with tomatoes. "It used to be bustling but now it is half empty. Since the euro, everything is much harder. Prices have doubled. The euro was supposed to bring security but we cannot live like this."

Mr Calderoli's Northern League, a small Right-wing party that holds the balance of power in Silvio Berlusconi's ruling coalition, is championing the euro's abandonment during a strange upsurge in popular nostalgia for the lira, never the most stable or loved of currencies."
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Sun 12 Jun, 2005 04:03 pm
And another........is this one a spoof, Walter?



Dandelions and daisies feed Schröder's jobless
By Tony Paterson in Berlin
(Filed: 12/06/2005)

Take the buds from six handfuls of daisies, freshly picked from the cracks in the pavement. Soak in a litre of salted water and place in a jar of vinegar. Leave to marinate for two months - and then serve to your hard-up friends as tasty Mediterranean-style capers.

They may not sound the most appetising snack, but for Germany's growing army of unemployed people, dishes made from daisies, dandelions and other weeds are becoming staple fare, thanks to a cookbook aimed at the jobless.

Hartz IV - A Cookbook for Hard Times takes its name from Peter Hartz, the German businessman behind Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's unpopular economic reforms, which are widely blamed for pushing unemployment figures to their highest level since the 1930s.

The book, which aims to feed a family of four for less than €5 (£3.30) per meal, has become so popular among Germany's 4.8 million unemployed that - despite a relatively hefty €12 (£8) price tag - it sold out after hitting the bookshops last month. Its Berlin publishers have since ordered a reprint.

Among the budget recipes is one for pesto sauce made from wild rocket which, the book points out, grows lustily in the verges of many dole office car parks. A loaf of stale bread, meanwhile, can be turned into "poor man's parmesan" if it is doused in oil and then grated.

The authors, Sigrid Ormeloh, 41, a designer, and Nicole Schlier, a 45-year-old catering manager, took some of the recipes from wartime "austerity" cookbooks.

The Sunday Telegraph put the book to the test with Christian Berger, a 41-year-old Berlin web-designer who has been hunting for a job for the past eight months.

Hungry after a long morning queuing for benefits, Mr Berger cooked up a no-frills lunch of dandelion and bacon salad with a celeriac wiener schnitzel - celery root fried in breadcrumbs. But what did it taste like ?

The dandelions, he declared, were "tough and stringy". The schnitzel, however, was a marked improvement. "You can eat this," Mr Berger said, chewing cautiously. "Actually it's rather delicious."

Best of all, he added, was the price. Lunch had cost him a total of €2.8 (£1.80).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/06/12/weu12.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/06/12/ixnewstop.html
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 12 Jun, 2005 04:05 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Actually - and George will know this best from own experience - the charges and countercharges recall a period from 1970 (the year a consortium of European aerospace companies formed Airbus) to 1992, when Boeing and Airbus signed a bilateral accord setting rules for subsidies.

(The loans are/were permissible under the '92 accord, though I doubt if under the WTO's broader trade rules.)

EU - US Agreement on Large Civil Aircraft 1992: key facts and figures


Walter your reference is one-sided and argumentative. The off shore sales company issue is a much larger dispute between us and Europe, covering other industries as well. This is a part of the Socialist European view that countries should not compete based on taxes or the cost of government. America will never accept that. I have separately outlined how the finances of wholly government funded operations are segregated, by law, from other commercial aspects of Boeing's operations.

Airbus is controlled and partly owned by a consortium of government controlled companies. It isn't a private enterprise at all. There will be trouble ahead on this matter and the views of both public and government here are not at all condusive to compromise. You are correct that the WTO rules have reopened the issue - much to Europe's disadvantage.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Sun 12 Jun, 2005 04:12 pm
Earlier in this thread, I said that Chirac would try to deflect his humiliation regarding the "Non" vote......it looks as if he's on course.

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/06/12/do1201.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/06/12/ixnewstop.html

Snippet:-

WHEN IN TROUBLE, BLAME THE BRITS.
By Daniel Hannan
(Filed: 12/06/2005)

"The leaders of Old Europe are still reeling from their referendum results. They cannot bring themselves to accept that their peoples have turned against them. Dazed and disoriented, they have lashed out at a familiar target: it is all the fault of Tony Blair.

Their Euro-fanatic newspapers have taken the same line. Reading the French, Spanish or German press last week, you would have had the impression that Blair on his own - rather than 20 million French "No" voters - had blocked the European Constitution. The Continental political class is engaging in a collective act of what psychologists call displacement, externalising something which they do not like in themselves.

All would have been well, they assure each other, if it hadn't been for the grosses bêtes. Casting around for a weapon with which to belabour Blair, they have snatched at the EU budget which, by chance, happens to be up for one of its periodic renegotiations (like the old USSR, the European Union proceeds by a series of Five Year Plans, proposed by a 25-member politburo and rubber stamped by a tame parliament). Attacking the British rebate, negotiated by Margaret Thatcher more than 20 years ago, is the obvious strategy for Jacques Chirac and Gerhard Schröder."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 12 Jun, 2005 07:02 pm
Quote, ""Look at this square," said Sonia Proietta, filling a paper bag with tomatoes. "It used to be bustling but now it is half empty. Since the euro, everything is much harder. Prices have doubled. The euro was supposed to bring security but we cannot live like this."

It doesn't require many economic's courses to understand why a common currency is not good for many countries. They may have loved the idea of a common currency, but at the expense of losing control of inflation - a major handicap for any economy. There are many unhappy citizens of the Euro countries, but not many seem to be complaining of the realities. Since all the products and services must compete with all the other countries based on the single currency, they not only have a problem within the Euro countries, but also with the world market place.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 12 Jun, 2005 07:32 pm
Lord Ellpus wrote:
The Continental political class is engaging in a collective act of what psychologists call displacement, externalising something which they do not like in themselves.


Chirac has been doing this with us for years. Schroeder joined the chorus later. However their numbers will soon be up. It is pay the piper time for their social welfare programs and they will not be able to keep the illusions alive much longer. Chirac may fade from the scene before the crisis hits France - Schroeder may go as well. Too bad in a way - I would prefer to see them reviled directly, but it will be good just to see them go.

Interesting to note the increasing use of Donald Rumsfeld's brilliant epithet about "Old Europe" by more and more perceptive, sensible people. Let us all hope that Old Europe wakes up soon.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 06:52 am
Lord Ellpus wrote:
And another........is this one a spoof, Walter?



Dandelions and daisies feed Schröder's jobless
By Tony Paterson in Berlin
(Filed: 12/06/2005)


I find it kind of bizarre to find The Telegraph, a paper that steadfastly opposed all welfare state-benefits, including the much-belated introduction of a minimum wage by the Blair government, in its own country, lamenting about how tough the poor in Germany have it. In Britain, as a Guardian report a few months ago showed, the poorest people are now exactly as bad off as they were twentyfive years ago, even while the (upper) middle classes' wealth soared.

Of course, the irony here also is that Schroeder and the Germans are habitually lambasted - exactly by such proponents of market reform as The Telegraph - for pussyfooting around the necessary painful reforms of their purportedly outdated welfare state - but when he does, then, cut deeply into said welfare arrangements, we get cute stories about what a hopeless crisis the Krauts are in and how scandalously poor their poor are. Cant win for losing, can you?

Meanwhile, I was watching Euronews last night, an item about the current, protracted negotiations about respective Member States' contributions, and it had some striking stats.

First off, they presented the average net wage of workers in the different member states, converted into euros. Latvia came out last, and on the top the UK was in first place, with Luxemburg and Germany following 2nd and 3rd. But, as the presenter pointed out, these numbers dont take price levels into account, so give no indication of what people are actually able to buy. For that, you need the Purchasing Power Parity stats (PPP?). So they showed those, too. Germany came in at #1, followed by Luxemburg and the UK in third place.

People in Germany currently have the highest average purchasing power of Europe. <lets that sink in, in stark contrast to the dramatic whines from disgruntled German voters themselves and the triumphantelist bragging about the demise of the continental system by Brits and Americans.> A country in its economic death throes, this apparently is not, even if growth has tapered off to minimal levels lately. I mean, even so their current model has made them the richest of the continent. No wonder that they are reluctant to swallow the free-market reform medicines prescribed to them by people who always already thought they never should have had that model in the first place.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 06:57 am
Lord Ellpus wrote:
like the old USSR, the European Union proceeds by a series of Five Year Plans, proposed by a 25-member politburo and rubber stamped by a tame parliament

A parallel that would almost work, were it not for the fact that the 25-member "politburo" is made up of the democratically elected heads of state of the individual member states... Rolling Eyes

Lord Ellpus wrote:
Attacking the British rebate, negotiated by Margaret Thatcher more than 20 years ago, is the obvious strategy for Jacques Chirac and Gerhard Schröder."

Well, for Schroeder at least, yes, considering Germany gets no rebate and pays a contribution to the EU a multiple of that of the Brits ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 11:35 am
A little bit late back to Airbus and its ownership:

20% is owned by BAE Systems Plc [combination of British Aerospace (BAe) and Marconi Electronic Systems (MES)].

80% by European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS), formed by the merger on July 10, 2000 of Aérospatiale-Matra of France, Dornier GmbH and DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA) of Germany, and Construcciones Aeronáuticas SA (CASA) of Spain.

BAE Systems Plc
Significant shareholders


BAE SYSTEMS divides its different interests into business groups, each of which is overseen by one of three COOs (Chief of Operations). Only three companies hold over 3% of the shares issued by BAE SYSTEMS; Franklin Resources Inc (6.2%), Brandes Investment Partners, LP (4.0%), and CGNU plc (3.2%).



EADS Shareholders
http://www.eads.com/xml/content/OF00000000400004/1/69/29666691.gif


As of 31 December 2004, about one-third of EADS stock is publicly traded in six European stock markets and the rest is divided among three major business entities.
Publicly traded: 34.08% (Includes 3.55% held by EADS employees, .06% held by French government, and .78% held by EADS itself. Traded on Paris, Frankfurt, Madrid, Bilbao, Barcelona and Valencia stock exchanges.)
DaimlerChrysler: 30.2%
SOGEADE: 30.2% (50% French government body, SOGEPA and 50% Désirade)
SEPI: 5.52% (Spanish state holding company)


Sources: CorporateWatch, answer.com, FT et. al.
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 12:35 pm
Himmel! Walter - not all those shares have equal voting rights now, do they?!

Ran into some Russians today peddling a regional jet by Sukhoi. Knowing nothing of the thing I honestly said as much, but added that years ago I had seen their 27 flown by a man whose name I remembered after all those years - Pugachev. The Russians with visible effort restrained themselves from embracing me like a long-lost sister and promptly forgot all about their regional jet to talk fighter-interceptors until the cows came home - very funny Smile
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 01:03 pm
Interesting stories Helen. The SU 27 was/is a fine aircraft. Soviet design of aircraft, weapons and even ships was very different from ours. They emphasized high power density in engines, reactors and turbine plants and were willing to pay for with with short operating life. We emphasized reliability, endurance, and operating life and paid for it with performance. Evry once in a while they came up with a near perfect design (such as the MIG 21, the Backfire or even the venerable TU 114. They had a period of relative stagnation in the '70s but came back with an explosion of technological applications (some stolen from us) in the '80s.
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HofT
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 02:11 pm
George - as to the parenthesis in that last sentence, it's even clear how they got those specs, but it's all water under the bridge at this point.

Recall those "very subtle minds" you mentioned at some point; they, too, think in terms of many centuries, and a strategic partnership of EU US Russia may come in handy eventually - esp. if the sea lanes in the southern oceans (ANZ etc) are secure. The northern Arctic oceans will be as passable as the polar air routes have become already within only a few decades..
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 02:31 pm
I'm not quite so optimisticv as you about passage across the Northern Arctic Ocean. I made three crossings of the North Pacific ocean in my carrier - two north of the Aleutians, one of these in february as far north as the Pribolov (sp?) islands. Not a pleasant place for ships. I had earlier experience in the Denmark Strait - even worse. I believe even using the coastal Siberian route late in the summer season, the Russians have had a couple of near disasters.
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 02:36 pm
True, true, but the Arctic ice is truly melting at an accelerating pace - unlike the Antarctic, which is peculiarly getting still thicker. Satellite measurements only go back (with precision) a decade, and trends can get reversed - so that's only a forecast. And no, I don't know for sure if it will rain tomorrow, either <G>
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 02:44 pm
True enough, but then there is a thing called ice fog that can accumulate 10" thick ice layers on superstructures in a matter of minutes. Nothing like a few thousand tons of ice 150 feet above the water line - all in a rough sea - to get and hold your attention. I've seen good days up there as well, and i agree the Norwegian Sea isn't bad at all. As for the rest - when it's bad, it's awful
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 02:54 pm
Yes. I knew of it at altitude but had no idea it also existed at sea level. Siberia has had minus 60 degrees on several occasions in recent years (at such numbers Fahrenheit or Centigrade no longer matter, anything outdoors will die unless buried in snow) so this is obviously not a uniform rule.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 03:42 pm
There are so many areas of differences between the EU countries, how will they ever agree on a common constitution?

From the NYT:

June 14, 2005
Vatican Position Is Victorious in Fertility Vote by Italians
By IAN FISHER
ROME, June 13 - A law that imposes strict rules on assisted fertility will remain on the books, after the failure today of a hard-fought referendum that rubbed into one of Italy's sorest spots: the relationship between church and state.

The fight leading up to two days of voting Sunday and Monday mobilized the nation's political and religious establishments like few others, as the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church - including the new pope, Benedict XVI - urged Italians to boycott the referendum.

In the end, the result was not even close: Only 26 percent of eligible Italians cast their votes, meaning that the referendum automatically failed in its attempt to repeal four crucial sections of a restrictive fertility law passed here last year. For the referendum to be valid, 50 percent of eligible voters had to participate.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 03:44 pm
The Holy See is no EU member - and assisted fertility etc have never been an EU-theme at all. (That's all national law.)
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 05:56 pm
european union
over the last year the possibility of using the port of churchill in northern canada to trans-ship goods between north-america and russia has been in the business news on a number of occasions in canada.
these are long-range plans, timeframes of "middle of the century" are being mentioned.
the colorado based transportation company OMNITRX has purchsed the port facilities and seems to be serious in wanting to develop the facilities.

...OMNITRAX...

...BRIDGE OVER MELTING ICE CAP...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2005 06:09 pm
Walter, But the citizens of Italy are. They're the ones who will vote on any referendum for the EU constitution. You'd be surprised how far religion can influence local politics - even whole countries.
0 Replies
 
 

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