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FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 26 Nov, 2003 11:23 am
Thomas wrote:

I agree -- and this is one of the interesting things which political cheerleaders in this newsgroup don't pay attention to -- most of the really, really bad decisions in American politics were bi-partisan decisions. Ending welfare, attacking Iraq, the PATRIOT act, the war on drugs.... I think Vietnam belongs in that line too, but I'm not sure.


I tink I agree with the general proposition about bipartisan decisions, but the specific examples offeres - another matter. After some reflection I believe the only think worse than the bi partisan positions taken on the examples Thomas listed would have been their alternatives.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Wed 26 Nov, 2003 11:52 am
George -- it would be boring for both of us if you and I agreed on the specifics, wouldn't it?
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au1929
 
  1  
Fri 28 Nov, 2003 08:27 am
Trouble in paradise?

http://www.iht.com/articles/119475.html
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 28 Nov, 2003 08:57 am
No, long known.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 28 Nov, 2003 09:33 am
au, That is old news, actually, as Walter says. There has been disenchantment of the many members of the EU for quite a few years now, but what can you expect when the strongest economies break the rules, and the 'small' countries have no power to impose any penalties. I think it's a mistake to join the EU until they can agree on rules and regulations that has some merit that protects everybody.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 2 Dec, 2003 07:43 am
There's an excellent report on today's BBC-website ... with some really interesting personal opinions:

The euro and Europe's blurring borders
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 5 Dec, 2003 09:59 am
Dutch Set for a Taste of Their Own Medicine

There may be a few red faces in the Dutch Finance Ministry soon if a survey published on Friday by the Dutch think tank, the Central Planning Bureau (CPB), turns out to be correct. In the past the Netherlands has repeatedly criticized France and Germany for breaking discipline required by the euro zone's Stability and Growth Pact. But now it looks like the Dutch might break those rules themselves next year. The CPB survey projects that the Dutch budget deficit will hit 3.25 percent of GDP in 2004 -- above the three percent ceiling allowed by the Stability Pact rules. The Dutch Finance Minister has strongly dismissed the projections. A statement issued by the ministry said that the idea that the Netherlands was about to break the rules was "nonsense." A European Commission spokesman also said that the Commission did not expect the Netherlands to breach the rules. (EUobserver.com)
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 5 Dec, 2003 02:08 pm
My I remind of the BBC articles re Europe?

Today's on The EU's democratic challenge
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 5 Dec, 2003 02:39 pm
Walter, Seems the EU elections are losing interest from their participant countries. It's only a guess, but I think the next presidential election in this country is going to show a larger turnout of voters as a result of Florida, and the strong feelings for or against GWBush.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 5 Dec, 2003 02:45 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Walter, Seems the EU elections are losing interest from their participant countries. It's only a guess, but I think the next presidential election in this country is going to show a larger turnout of voters as a result of Florida, and the strong feelings for or against GWBush.


Well, c.i., consifering the turnout of elections in the USA, we doing quite well here, I think - still between 70% and over 80% in average.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Fri 5 Dec, 2003 02:56 pm
Does the USA fear what the EU may become?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 5 Dec, 2003 03:21 pm
Steve, I'm not sure how the US can fear the EU. The US, Canada, Mexico, and Japan combined economies far distance what the EU can hope to challenge. Japan's ties to the US is much greater than to the EU, and it will remain that way for the forseeable future - as probably will South Korea.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 5 Dec, 2003 03:43 pm
So you think, c.i., the USA, Canada, Mexico and Japan will form a kind of EU as well?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 5 Dec, 2003 04:52 pm
No, but we now have NAFTA. The economic and political ties of Japan and North Korea to the US are very strong, and I doubt the EU will have too much influence on those two countries.
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nimh
 
  1  
Fri 5 Dec, 2003 10:09 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Dutch Set for a Taste of Their Own Medicine


Yeh, that made our Finances Minister look really silly.

He was the leader of the (free-market) VVD party in the last elections, and he's obviously been trying to shore up a kind of semi-nationalist support for his party by "standing up", and most publicly and stridently so, against those irresponsible bullies in France and Germany, for whose above-agreed deficits we might end up paying for in taxes - et cetera.

He's also been selling the tough budget cuts this government is imposing on social security, health costs etc by referring to those EU budget rules. Of course, his party considers cuts like that a good thing on itself, but that kind of ideological point is harder to sell to the political mainstream, so he's been using the EU rules as a fig leaf. That was another reason why he had to be so opposed to the French/German decision to claim a waiver on them - because Labour was immediately asking, well, if they can claim a waiver, why do we need to be so hellbent on keeping, even bettering the rules?
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nimh
 
  1  
Fri 5 Dec, 2003 10:13 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Walter, Seems the EU elections are losing interest from their participant countries. It's only a guess, but I think the next presidential election in this country is going to show a larger turnout of voters as a result of Florida, and the strong feelings for or against GWBush.


Well, c.i., consifering the turnout of elections in the USA, we doing quite well here, I think - still between 70% and over 80% in average.


Walter, you're right - the national elections in all the current EU countries get a much higher turnout than the American elections do.

C.i. was referring specifically to the European elections though, and turnout for those has been extremely low. In Holland it was some 35% last time around.

Of course, this is mainly because the European Parliament doesnt have much decision-making power, really - the real power lies with the (unelected) European Commission and the European Council, and with the national parliaments. If the EP would get some teeth I'm sure turnout would go up.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 6 Dec, 2003 08:23 am
My impression - admittedly a distant and not fully informed one - is that the European parliament IS beginning to accumulate real power through the growing body of EU law governing environmental, commercial, and other standards. It is possible that public response lags the accumulating facts in such matters, and that there could be a sudden perception of the change when some issue captures the public consciousness. When I see references in the media to Chris Patton, Neal Kinnock and other formerly prominent figures in UK governments, I wonder if this is a general trend - is the EU Parliament a preferred destination for failed or defeated national politicians?

An inevitable consequence of the so far remarkable success the European governments have achieved with the EU, is the eventual emergence of some fructuous national or regional issues over which general agreement cannot be achieved. The current dispute over Germany's failure to comply with the budgetary deficit limits, may be a case in point. I suspect the other EU countries will not be unhappy to see these limits relaxed. However, the underlying problem of maintaining appropriate monetary and budgetary policy in a diverse region with a single currency, cultural barriers to population mobility, inflexible labor markets, generous social programs, and declining populations, remains.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 6 Dec, 2003 08:31 am
georgeob1 wrote:
My impression - admittedly a distant and not fully informed one - is that the European parliament IS beginning to accumulate real power through the growing body of EU law governing environmental, commercial, and other standards.


Well, may I refer to the above given link from the BBC, quoting from there:
Quote:
Liberal MEP Chris Davies, who represents the North-West of England, says he has far more influence as a member of the European parliament than he did as an opposition MP in the House of Commons.

"Here I started to have an impact on day one," he says in his office on the 10th floor of the enormous glass parliament complex in Brussels. "And there has not been a month since when words I tabled did not end up in legislation."
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 6 Dec, 2003 08:35 am
georgeob1 wrote:
... is the EU Parliament a preferred destination for failed or defeated national politicians?


Indeed, it looked like .... but more for older, respected ones, kind of "activity for nearly retiree politicans".

Especially the Green and Social Democrats are now sending (trying to - it means) younger lawmakers to Strassbourg/Brussels/Luxembourg.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 6 Dec, 2003 08:37 am
georgeob1 wrote:
The current dispute over Germany's failure to comply with the budgetary deficit limits ...


Well, it was France as well. And some other countries are 'waiting' to get this role as well ...
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