FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

The whole basis of the EU was for the first world western countries to form an economic consolidation to be able to compete with the US. The idea may be good in theory but the implementation and practical considerations will make it hard to achieve. The recent induction of eastern bloc countries will do nothing but erode the economic performance of germany, france etc. These countries, full of inherited corruption since the cold war days will become a liability for the EU. And if the Powers to be, accepts Turkey into the EU you may as well shut the whole continent down now. Will the last one leaving Europe, please turn out the lights!

You guys are forgetting one important aspect of the EU that are now using the Euro as their currency. With the devaluation of the US dollar against the Euro, the Pound, and some other currencies, their products and services have become harder to compete in the world markets, and they have no control over the over-valuation of the Euro. Additionally, the US dollar balance of trade now has less value to all our trading partners. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, but many countries committ themselves to unions that have not been thoroughly examined.

I agree. It is financial suicide to let in the rubbish from the east such as poland, hungary, czech republic etc etc. And if they vote turkey in, well it will be a third world europe!

The use of terms such as "the rubbish from the East" is both unfair and wildly inaccurate, suggesting a certain lack of knowledge and understanding. The recent expansion of the EU has already a done good deal to restore Europe to its pre WWII condition, following the collapse of the Soviet Empire. Moreover it has done so in a manner that promises an end to the national conflicts that so plagued Europe in the preceding centuries.

There are many issues on which Americans can be justifiably critical of the policies of the major continental European nations, however their actions to fulfill the basic founding purposes and principals of the European union are not among them. They have been singularly successful in creating a functioning economic union despite the differences of language, history, and local interests. In the process they have done remarkably well in stimulating economic development in once relatively poor western European nations, notably Portugal and Ireland.

They are now facing the same issues on a much larger scale with the accession the Central European nations, formerly socialist captives of the Soviet system. This is a major transition, involving wrenching changes in the social, economic, and political structures of these nations, and, as well, significant stresses on the other, more established members. There aren't any good benchmarks for transformations of this kind and scale - no one has done it before. However, it is beyond doubt that they have been notably successful, and that this so far represents one of the brighter chapters in the history of both Europe and the world.

All of Europe, East and West faces new political and economic challenges as a result of a major demographic shift which affects the whole developed world to some degree, but no where more immediately and profoundly than in Europe. Birthrates have declined rapidly since WWII, so much that the social welfare systems in almost all European countries are faced with serious, immediate questions of sustainability. (We have this problem in the U.S. as well, but less immediately and to a lesser degree.) This has also led to significant immigration pressures from the adjacent Moslem states where economic & political development is less and birthrates are much higher. Europe is now struggling to deal with these difficult issues.

It is worth remembering that many of the social and economic differences between Europe and the United States can be (properly in my view) viewed as the result of our historical adaptation to the sustained large-scale immigration of large numbers of people seeking a better life for themselves and their progeny. Our society is less homogeneous, more competitive, and involves a greater degree of disparity in income and wealth than those in Europe. Now for the first time, faced with large-scale immigration, Europe is struggling to find its own way of dealing with the attendant social and economic stresses. It remains to be seen how they will do in this, but the problems that have occurred so far are not materially different from those that occurred here.

There is a major, mostly political and strategic issue on which I do quarrel with European policy and prevailing attitudes. That is the ambition of some to position the EU as some sort of counterforce to the United States. This, coupled with what I perceive to be a profound forgetfulness on the part of many Europeans that the major issues facing the world today - those between the West and the Moslem world, particularly that part of it once a part of the Ottoman Empire, and some involving poverty and the lack of political development in Africa - are largely attributable to the prior actions of these same European countries, is at the core of the current friction between the U.S. and Europe. I am very concerned that this European forgetfulness will feed the growing rivalry between the U.S. and Europe, and may result in new alignments of powers that may open yet another chapter in the history of needless war and destruction in the world

That's not true:

ad 1)
not all EU-countries are EURO countries as well.

EURO-countries are: Austria, Ireland, Belgium, Italy, Finland, Luxembourg, France, Netherlands, Germany, Portugal, Greece, Spain.

EU-countries are:
Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, The Netherlands, United Kingdom



ad 2)

Essentially, however, the EURO is simply the ECU renamed.
And the ECU has been in use in all EU-countries, since the European Monetary System was launched on March 13, 1979.

Speaking of "rubbish" ...


Okay, George formulated it more politely:
"The use of terms such as "the rubbish from the East" is both unfair and wildly inaccurate, suggesting a certain lack of knowledge and understanding."

It is up to you. you live there. Don't say I didn't warn you

It is up to you. you live there. Don't say I didn't warn you

It is up to you. you live there. Don't say I didn't warn you

... and just to make things even more confusing, some countries use the Euro even if they are not members of the EU. I know for sure that Montenegro is among them, and so -- in effect -- are about ten African countries which basically used Franc before there was the Euro. But I'm pretty sure there are more.

You are referring to the CFA-Franc-countries, Thomas, I suppose. (Actually 14 countries)

The CFA Franc is still the legal currency for those countries (although the "mother currency" now is the EURO).


But Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican State (The Holy See) are EURO-countries, too.

Walter, do you think the German economy is better off being in the EU and euro? I don't, but am interested in your opinion.

You probably forgot that Germany has been a founding member of the forrunner of the EU, the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC), since 1952.
So actually, no-one could say with some seriousness, how Germany would do without - or do you consider the years between 1949 and 1951 as a parameter?

And EURO? We have had the common monetary unity ECU before that for years - no-one complained of it.
RURO actually only means that you can 'feel' the European money now literally.

Walter, I think you failed to answer australia's question. He's not asking about the original establishment.

I don't think at all that I failed such.

We definately have no possibility to compare the situation otherwise.
It's more than hard to immagine how something would be, which grew together over more than 50 years.

Okay, I could guess, how life would be in Germany against all Europe, but I don't think this could be worth even acedemic mock attacks.


Nevertheless, my answer is a fully:
'Yes, the German economy is much better in the EU than standing alone.'

'Yes, a common currency for Europe is much better than single for any country.'

Quote, 'Yes, the German economy is much better in the EU than standing alone.'

I agree. With free trade amongst it's members, it strengthens Germany's ability to compete, because Germany's economy is probably the most advanced technology-wise.

Quote, "'Yes, a common currency for Europe is much better than a single."

There are several pros and cons concerning the common currency for Europe. On the pro side, it makes for easier trade within Europe, and currency exchange becomes moot. On the con side, the valuation of the Euro is beyond the control of many countries whose inflation rate is different, and that in turn creates problems for their government. Additionally, with the Euro's increase in valuation against the US dollar, yuan, and Yen, their products and services become much harder to compete in the world's markets in a world economy.

I think the decline of the dollar would cause the export problem for European nations, whether or not they adopted the Euro. Britain is certainly noticing it.

On a personal level, it makes trips to see friends in the States much cheaper!

KP

kitchenpete, Hi! Your visit to the states becomes cheaper, but for those of us planning trips to Europe pay a premium. You guys gets all the breaks. ho-hum... Be seeing you in May?

Well, actually this was going on similarily with ECU, since more than 20 years, before the '€' itself was introduced.
But funnily, no-one complained in those days.

But what will happen when the weaker economic countries join the euro? Does this have the potential to devalue the euro, and therefore Germany's economy? There is also the fact, that as Germany has the strongest economy, it sometimes has to fund the majority of EU initiatives. Germanys debt at the moment is huge, due to the reunification of east and west germany. I worry sometimes that this countries economy is fragile.