Raul-7
 
Reply Fri 24 Nov, 2006 12:03 am
"Medically it is well known now that a fly carries some pathagens on some parts of its body as mentioned by the Prophet (before 1400 years. approx. when the humans knew very little of modern medicine.) Similarly Allah created organisms and other mechanisms which kill these pathagens e.g. penicillin Fungus kills pathogenic organisms like Staphalococci and others etc. Recently experiments have been done under supervision which indicate that a fly carries the disease (pathagens) plus the antidote for those organ-isms. Ordinarily when a fly touches a liquid food it infects the liquid with its pathogens, so it must be dipped in order to release also the antidote for those pathogens to act as a counter balance to the pathogens.

Prophet Mohummed says "If a fly falls into one of your containers [of food or drink], immerse it completely (falyaghmis-hu kullahu) before removing it, for under one of its wings there is venom and under another there is its antidote. "

It is established that house flies are carriers of dangerous pathogens of animals and humans. Even the muscaphobic critics of this hadith are forced to admit that no one at the time of the Prophet, upon him peace, knew that flies carry such harmful organisms. Whence the observation that "under one of its wings there is venom"?

Second, from the perspective of logic, if the fly did not carry some sort of protection in the form of an antidote or immunity, it would perish from its own poisonous burden and there would be no fly left in the world.

Further, the transmission of what the fly carries in or on its body is not an automatic fact. For example, the microbe responsible for ulcers and other stomach ailments can live on houseflies, although it remains to be seen whether flies transmit the pathogen.

There has long been evidence of bacterial pathogen-suppressing micro-organisms living in houseflies. An article in Vol. 43 of the Rockefeller Foundation's Journal of Experimental Medicine (1927) p. 1037 stated:

The flies were given some of the cultured microbes for certain diseases. After some time the germs died and no trace was left of them while a germ-devouring substance formed in the flies - bacteriophages. If a saline solution were to be obtained from these flies it would contain bacteriophages able to suppress four kinds of disease-inducing germs and to benefit immunity against four other kinds.

Cited in `Abd Allah al-Qusami, Mushkilat al-Ahadith al-Nabawiyya wa-Bayanuha (p. 42).

More recently, a Colorado State University website on entomology states, "Gnotobiotic [=germ-free] insects (Greenberg et al, 1970) were used to provide evidence of the bacterial pathogen-suppressing ability of the microbiota of Musca domestica [houseflies] .... most relationships between insects and their microbiota remain undefined. Studies with gnotobiotic locusts suggest that the microbiota confers previously unexpected benefits for the insect host."

So then, flies are not only pathogenic carriers but also carry microbiota that can be beneficent. The fly microbiota were described as "longitudinal yeast cells living as parasites inside their bellies. These yeast cells, in order to perpetuate their life cycle, protrude through certain respiratory tubules of the fly. If the fly is dipped in a liquid, the cells burst into the fluid and the content of those cells is an antidote for the pathogens which the fly carries." Cf. Footnote in the Translation of the Meanings of Sahih al-Bukhari by Muhammad Muhsin Khan (7:372, Book 76 Medicine, Chapter 58, Hadith 5782).

These fly microbiota are bacteriophagic or "germ-eating". Bacteriophages are viruses of viruses. They attack viruses and bacteria. They can be selected and bred to kill specific organisms. The viruses infect a bacterium, replicate and fill the bacterial cell with new copies of the virus, and then break through the bacterium's cell wall, causing it to burst. The existence of similar bacteria-killing mechanisms in two bacteriophages suggests that antibiotics for human infections might be designed on the basis of these cell wall-destroying proteins. Science 292 (June 2001) p. 2326-2329.

Bacteriophagic medicine was available in the West before the forties but was discontinued when penicillin and other "miracle antibiotics" came out. Bacteriophages continued to flourish in Eastern Europe as an over-the-counter medicine. The "O1-phage" has been used for diagnosis of all Salmonella types while the prophylaxis of Shigella dysentery was conducted with the help of phages. Annales Immunologiae Hungaricae No. 9 (1966) in German.

Now researchers are developing a new antibiotic made of the antidode living on the fly's surface

Hence-
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s689400.htm
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,065 • Replies: 11
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kevnmoon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Nov, 2006 12:11 am
Good article.. I had waited for this article for years.. This Hadith is so interesting.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Nov, 2006 12:13 am
Occam's razor.
0 Replies
 
garth809
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Nov, 2006 12:22 am
I don't really know if dipping the entire fly into my drink seems logical.
what if the fly had landed on a disease earlier that it didn't have the antidote for.
I could be dying and landed in your drink to die.
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Nov, 2006 05:57 pm
OK, it is still a miracle nonetheless. He knew this fact 1400 years ago, and just recently we have finally found this out. It's a clear sign for those who take notice.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 12:04 am
Jiminy crickets. Jews don't eat pork - how did they know it can be dangerous to health if not cooked properly. A miracle.

Sorry Raul, it don't seem miraculous to me at all.
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 12:17 am
hingehead wrote:
Jiminy crickets. Jews don't eat pork - how did they know it can be dangerous to health if not cooked properly. A miracle.

Sorry Raul, it don't seem miraculous to me at all.


That's because it was made unlawful to them by Allah. Thus sending the message down in the Torah and similarly the Quran. This too is a sign.

How is it not miraculous when back in 620AD no-one knew anything about antibiotics let alone that flies carried pathogens. Then only recently did they confirm what the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said 1400 years ago that the fly carries both the pathogens and the antibiotics to kill those pathogens? Not only that, but he advises to immerse the fly completely in the liquid before removing it - which was just discovered that by immersing the fly completely in ethanol were they able to extract the antibiotics?
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 12:27 am
It is not miraculous because.

If you observe something as causal ie When I do this, THis Happens. Even though you don't understand the mechanism the cause still results in the effect.

For thousands of years apples fell from trees. It was observable fact. Did anyone before Newton postulate why they fell to the ground?

Just because Mohammed noted the causal relationship discussed above does not mean he understood the underlying mechanism.

My, admittedly poor, knowledge of the Quran is that at no point did he talk about bacteria - we had to wait for Leewanhoek to invent the microscope. It doesn't make Mohammed wrong, he never tried to explain why the fly trick worked. It also doesn't make it a miracle.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 02:57 am
You will get more germs from kissing your partner than you will from swallowing a fly, though the experience is likely to be much less pleasurable. There ain't no miracles here.
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 12:34 pm
Wilso wrote:
You will get more germs from kissing your partner than you will from swallowing a fly, though the experience is likely to be much less pleasurable. There ain't no miracles here.


Do you even understand what the hadith is saying? Swallowing a fly isn't even the same as a fly landing on your drink and then you proceeding to drink it. The fly only releases it's biological defense against the pathogens it carries is when it is completely immersed in a solution, otherwise you risk getting typhoid, cholera, Salmonella, tuberculosis, etc.

The concept is simple, the Prophet knew this fact 1400 years before science even thought of considering the House fly as carrying both pathogens and anti-biotics. Even moreso the fact that these anti-biotics were only realeased once it was completely immersed.

This not even near the concept of discovering gravity, gravity was observed everyday. Since when were fly's thought to have caused dangerous diseases, this was only discovered fairly recently. Your compartive analogy is faulty to compare somthing on the scale of gravity, to something microscopic and biological.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 02:07 pm
Like I seem to say a lot in this forum.

You believe what you want to believe.

I should have known better than to drag logic into an argument with a believer. Have a nice day.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 03:55 pm
Raul-7 wrote:
Wilso wrote:
You will get more germs from kissing your partner than you will from swallowing a fly, though the experience is likely to be much less pleasurable. There ain't no miracles here.


Do you even understand what the hadith is saying? Swallowing a fly isn't even the same as a fly landing on your drink and then you proceeding to drink it. The fly only releases it's biological defense against the pathogens it carries is when it is completely immersed in a solution, otherwise you risk getting typhoid, cholera, Salmonella, tuberculosis, etc.

The concept is simple, the Prophet knew this fact 1400 years before science even thought of considering the House fly as carrying both pathogens and anti-biotics. Even moreso the fact that these anti-biotics were only realeased once it was completely immersed.

This not even near the concept of discovering gravity, gravity was observed everyday. Since when were fly's thought to have caused dangerous diseases, this was only discovered fairly recently. Your compartive analogy is faulty to compare somthing on the scale of gravity, to something microscopic and biological.



for f@cks sake where do these friggin lunatics come from? Did someone drop you on your head as a child? It's 2006 for christs sake. How are there people still falling for these fairytales?
0 Replies
 
 

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