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The Truth About Mohammed

 
 
RexRed
 
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2006 01:51 pm
I do not worship Mohammed as God/Allah but I do revere him very highly as a GREAT prophet. Mohammed was no less infallible than the Pope is...

I do not believe Mohammed is the "last" prophet on the earth. I believe there are many still yet to come in the world. God will always have people speaking for him as long as there are people of God.

I admire Mohammed because he brought Jesus Christ to the Arab/Persian people that he united.

I also see a western bias toward Mohammed that I feel is unfair.

First I will say that one should draw a distinction between Mohammed and Islam... they are not one and the same... Correct me if you think I may be wrong.

It is true that Mohammed lived by the sword but let's examine who else lived by the sword...

How about Alexander the "GREAT"? The western mind considers Alexander as barbaric but they also up hold him and give him such lofty titles as "world conqueror" and so on... they carve busts of him and place him on a pedestal. How about blood thirsty murderer? How many people are calling Alexander the great a blood thirsty murderer?

Well some are doing this to Mohammed yet on the other hand revering Alexander for doing the exact same thing...

If this in not a cultural double standard I don't know what is.

I don't know If I believe in Islam, but I do have GREAT respect for Mohammed (PBUH) and what he tried to do.

Alexander was no better than Mohammed.

Alexander prayed to his God and killed in the name of his God.

Yet, Mohammed is deeply criticized for this. Mohammed united a people who had been fighting amongst themselves for hundreds of years.

Please feel free to give your ideas for or against what I have said concerning Mohammed.

Let's start a dialogue.

I might suggest to think before one starts to criticize others, remember the illegitimacy in their own back yard.
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2006 02:36 pm
All "prophets" are in it for the "profit" whether it be psychological, sexual or material! He who would "respect" a "prophet" is an accessory to such profiteering,
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2006 03:42 pm
Amen
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2006 04:07 pm
fresco wrote:
All "prophets" are in it for the "profit" whether it be psychological, sexual or material! He who would "respect" a "prophet" is an accessory to such profiteering,
Laughing propheteering

good one.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2006 04:30 pm
It REALLY fits the behavior of televangilsts
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2006 05:28 pm
You guys are fun :wink:
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2006 06:29 pm
Re: The Truth About Mohammed
RexRed wrote:
I do not worship Mohammed as God/Allah but I do revere him very highly as a GREAT prophet. Mohammed was no less infallible than the Pope is. . .
Well, yeah, but. . .
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 12:16 am
There is a fine line between the categories "leader" and "prophet". The first is concerned with functional rationality, the second with synthetic rationality. The average human seeks authoritative direction. The first category "leader" is ephemeral and relative to a particular set of historical circumstances.... the second category "prophet" is illusary and panders to man's yearning for "eternal truth" as a basis for his acceptance of direction.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 04:44 am
Actually the truth about Mohammed is that we know virtually nothing about him. The hadiths and commentaries on his life, probably the koran itself were all cobbled together by muslim[/i] scholars long after Mohammed's time. Islam grew out of the need for a cultural and legal bedrock to support the expanding muslim empire.

Can anyone answer this question I have asked many times. If Mohammed was surrounded by scribes who wrote down everything he said and did on parchment, pottery, bits of bone etc etc, how is it that not one[/i] artefact from those times exists today? What did they do with those items? We are told these held the actual words of God as revealed to his final Prophet. But those scholars who put together the Koran either lost them, or threw them away as garbage. (Actually if they had done either, something would have survived). My point is that the story of how the Koran came to be written was given a deliberate mythological and mystical provenance by the people who did in fact write it. It has nothing to do with Divinity, and everything to do with the needs of a rapidly expanding Islamic state.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 07:09 am
Steve wrote:
Actually the truth about Mohammed is that we know virtually nothing about him.

If you know nothing about Prophet Muhammad (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) then this is your problem, it is a lack of knowledge from your part, because we know everything about him. Everything was recorded: his sayings, his acts, his habits...


Here is a glimpse of his manners and character:

By nature he was gentle and kind hearted, always inclined to be gracious and to overlook the faults of others. Politeness and courtesy, compassion and tenderness, simplicity and humility, sympathy and sincerity were some of the keynotes of his character. In the cause of right and justice he could be resolute and severe but more often than not, his severity was tempered with generosity. He had charming manners which won him the affection of his followers and secured their devotion. Though virtual king of Arabia and an apostle of Allah, he never assumed an air of superiority. Not that he had to conceal any such vein by practice and artifice: with fear of Allah, sincere humility was ingrained in his heart. He used to say,

"I am a Prophet of Allah but I do not know what will be my end."

In one of his sermons calculated to instill the fear of Allah and the day of reckoning in the hearts of men, he said,

"O people of Quraish be prepared for the hereafter, I cannot save you from the punishment of Allah; O Bani Abd Manaf, I cannot save you from Allah; O Abbas, son of Abdul Mutalib, I cannot protect you either; O Fatima, daughter of Muhammad, even you I cannot save."

He used to pray,

"O Allah! I am but a man. If I hurt any one in any manner, then forgive me and do not punish me."

He always received people with courtesy and showed respect to older people and stated:

"To honor an old man is to show respect to Allah."

He would not deny courtesy even to wicked persons. It is stated that a person came to his house and asked permission for admission. The Prophet (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) remarked that he was not a good person but might be admitted. When he came in and while he remained in the house, he was shown full courtesy. When he left, Aiysha (the wife of the Prophet, may God be pleased with her) said,

"You did not think well of this man, but you treated him so well."

The Prophet (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) replied,

"He is a bad person in the sight of Allah who does not behave courteously and people shun his company because of his bad manners."

He was always the first to greet another and would not withdraw his hand from a handshake till the other man withdrew his. If one wanted to say something in his ears, he would not turn away till one had finished. He did not like people to get up for him.

He would himself, however, stand up when any dignitary came to him. He had stood up to receive the wet nurse who had reared him in infancy and had spread his own sheet for her. His foster brother was given similar treatment. He avoided sitting at a prominent place in a gathering, so much so that people coming in had difficulty in spotting him and had to ask which was the Prophet (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon him). Quite frequently uncouth bedouins accosted him in their own gruff and impolite manner but he never took offence.

He used to visit the poorest of ailing persons and exhorted all muslims to do likewise. He would sit with the humblest of persons saying that righteousness alone was the criterion of one's superiority over another. He invariably invited people be they slaves, servants or the poorest believers, to partake with him of his scanty meals.

Whenever he visited a person he would first greet him and then take his permission to enter the house. He advised the people to follow this etiquette and not to get annoyed if anyone declined to give permission, for it was quite likely the person concerned was busy otherwise and did not mean any disrespect.

There was no type of household work too low or too undignified for him. Aiysha (May God be pleased with her) has stated,

"He always joined in household work and would at times mend his clothes, repair his shoes and sweep the floor. He would milk, tether, and feed his animals and do the household shopping."

He would not hesitate to do the menial work of others, particularly of orphans and widows. Once when there was no male member in the house of the companion Kabab Bin Arat who had gone to the battlefield, he used to go to his house daily and milk his cattle for the inhabitants.


May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon His last and final messenger, Amen.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 07:15 am
meatloaf is often better served cold as a sandwich. A little mustard and a good bread.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 07:19 am
muslim

Nice story. But would you say that the following quote by Steve 4100 is untrue?

Steve wrote:
The hadiths and commentaries on his life, probably the koran itself were all cobbled together by muslim scholars long after Mohammed's time.


I know that the same is true for the christian bible. It was compiled some three hundred years after the death of Jesus, something which renders it somewhat questionable as a historical source.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 08:16 am
I'm talking about the historical figure of Mohammed, as opposed to the apocryphal stories from Muslim scholars. And what happened to all those artefacts? Did they throw away the original words of Allah? Thats no way to show respect surely?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 12:07 pm
Re: The Truth About Mohammed
neologist wrote:
RexRed wrote:
I do not worship Mohammed as God/Allah but I do revere him very highly as a GREAT prophet. Mohammed was no less infallible than the Pope is. . .
Well, yeah, but. . .


Both Mohammed and the Pope were/are merely fallible men...

Even Jesus was fallible, if he was not fallible God would not have granted Jesus grace.

Grace is being favored even though you don't really deserve it.

Allah, full of mercy and grace.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 12:09 pm
dyslexia wrote:
meatloaf is often better served cold as a sandwich. A little mustard and a good bread.

Shouldn't that be in the food threads? haha

Food for thought huh? Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 12:26 pm
Cyracuz wrote:
muslim

Nice story. But would you say that the following quote by Steve 4100 is untrue?

Steve wrote:
The hadiths and commentaries on his life, probably the koran itself were all cobbled together by muslim scholars long after Mohammed's time.


I know that the same is true for the christian bible. It was compiled some three hundred years after the death of Jesus, something which renders it somewhat questionable as a historical source.


Regardless how questionable these sources are they are they are still here for us to read and reason and wonder if the words and logic still hold true. It may not today be the reality of, if the myth actually happened but what does the myth teach? Are these teaching ethical by today's standards? Maybe it is not the words that are unethical but the way people interpret these words?

When we sift through the crusty surface and get into the heart of the matter does the myth teach an eternal truth?

The answer should be a clear yes or no.

Is God an eternal truth?

As long as there is some 'thing' that observes in this universe there is the possibility that this observer could evolve to again perceive of God.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 12:46 pm
muslim1 wrote:
Steve wrote:
Actually the truth about Mohammed is that we know virtually nothing about him.

If you know nothing about Prophet Muhammad (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) then this is your problem, it is a lack of knowledge from your part, because we know everything about him. Everything was recorded: his sayings, his acts, his habits...


Here is a glimpse of his manners and character:

By nature he was gentle and kind hearted, always inclined to be gracious and to overlook the faults of others. Politeness and courtesy, compassion and tenderness, simplicity and humility, sympathy and sincerity were some of the keynotes of his character. In the cause of right and justice he could be resolute and severe but more often than not, his severity was tempered with generosity. He had charming manners which won him the affection of his followers and secured their devotion. Though virtual king of Arabia and an apostle of Allah, he never assumed an air of superiority. Not that he had to conceal any such vein by practice and artifice: with fear of Allah, sincere humility was ingrained in his heart. He used to say,

"I am a Prophet of Allah but I do not know what will be my end."

In one of his sermons calculated to instill the fear of Allah and the day of reckoning in the hearts of men, he said,

"O people of Quraish be prepared for the hereafter, I cannot save you from the punishment of Allah; O Bani Abd Manaf, I cannot save you from Allah; O Abbas, son of Abdul Mutalib, I cannot protect you either; O Fatima, daughter of Muhammad, even you I cannot save."

He used to pray,

"O Allah! I am but a man. If I hurt any one in any manner, then forgive me and do not punish me."

He always received people with courtesy and showed respect to older people and stated:

"To honor an old man is to show respect to Allah."

He would not deny courtesy even to wicked persons. It is stated that a person came to his house and asked permission for admission. The Prophet (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) remarked that he was not a good person but might be admitted. When he came in and while he remained in the house, he was shown full courtesy. When he left, Aiysha (the wife of the Prophet, may God be pleased with her) said,

"You did not think well of this man, but you treated him so well."

The Prophet (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) replied,

"He is a bad person in the sight of Allah who does not behave courteously and people shun his company because of his bad manners."

He was always the first to greet another and would not withdraw his hand from a handshake till the other man withdrew his. If one wanted to say something in his ears, he would not turn away till one had finished. He did not like people to get up for him.

He would himself, however, stand up when any dignitary came to him. He had stood up to receive the wet nurse who had reared him in infancy and had spread his own sheet for her. His foster brother was given similar treatment. He avoided sitting at a prominent place in a gathering, so much so that people coming in had difficulty in spotting him and had to ask which was the Prophet (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon him). Quite frequently uncouth bedouins accosted him in their own gruff and impolite manner but he never took offence.

He used to visit the poorest of ailing persons and exhorted all muslims to do likewise. He would sit with the humblest of persons saying that righteousness alone was the criterion of one's superiority over another. He invariably invited people be they slaves, servants or the poorest believers, to partake with him of his scanty meals.

Whenever he visited a person he would first greet him and then take his permission to enter the house. He advised the people to follow this etiquette and not to get annoyed if anyone declined to give permission, for it was quite likely the person concerned was busy otherwise and did not mean any disrespect.

There was no type of household work too low or too undignified for him. Aiysha (May God be pleased with her) has stated,

"He always joined in household work and would at times mend his clothes, repair his shoes and sweep the floor. He would milk, tether, and feed his animals and do the household shopping."

He would not hesitate to do the menial work of others, particularly of orphans and widows. Once when there was no male member in the house of the companion Kabab Bin Arat who had gone to the battlefield, he used to go to his house daily and milk his cattle for the inhabitants.


May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon His last and final messenger, Amen.


This is a very nice assessment of Mohammed's true character Steve. May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon Mohammed forever...

It was a great example to the world for Mohammed to have such humble and kindhearted character to all people in such troubling times.

Outside wars were common place and there were godless and barbaric people who desired only to kill others and did not follow this example of the love of Mohammed and Allah.

Mohammed had to unite his people because if he had not united them they would have, divided, been overcome by either internal tribal chaos or external treachery.

Islam seems to be the glue that holds them together.

I am not sure that Mohammed wanted a religion and a jehad.

He just wanted people to love Allah and each other.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 02:33 pm
!!
Dys, right now I'm worshipping the idea of a meat loaf sandwich with mayonaisse and mustard. Now THAT'S religion!
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2006 01:58 pm
Ok... We've learned that talk of food is bad for internet discussion.... Smile
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2006 02:17 pm
Not to be ethnocentric, Cyracuz, but it does not surprise me that a Norwegian would be quick to put a negative slant on food discussions. An Italian could never do that. For him/her food is the root of all virtue.
Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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