US troops unlawfully killed UK journalist, coroner finds.

From the BBC:

..... The National Union of Journalists (NUJ) said Mr Lloyd's killing was a "war crime" and this was echoed by Mr Lloyd's widow, Lyn.

In a statement she said: "This was a very serious war crime, how else can firing on a vehicle in these circumstances be interpreted?

"This was not a friendly fire incident or a crossfire incident, it was a despicable, deliberate, vengeful act, particularly as it came many minutes after the initial exchange. ......

.......................

Mr Lloyd was covering the British and American invasion of Iraq as a "unilateral" journalist, rather than those "embedded" with UK or US forces, who were subject to military censorship.

The ITN crew's vehicle was burnt out in the incident

He and his three colleagues were caught up in a firefight between US and Iraqi forces near the Shatt Al Basra Bridge on 22 March 2003.

After an eight-day inquest Mr Walker cleared ITN of any blame for Mr Lloyd's death and praised him and his team for their "professionalism and dedication".

He said it was his view the American tanks had been first to open fire on the ITN crew's two vehicles.

He added Mr Lloyd would probably have survived the first bullet wound he received, but was killed as he travelled away in a makeshift ambulance.

Mr Walker said it "presented no threat to American forces" since it was a civilian minibus and was facing away from the US tanks.

"I have no doubt it was the fact that the vehicle stopped to pick up survivors that prompted the Americans to fire on that vehicle," he said

ITN's editor in chief David Mannion said: "I would also like to say something that I know Terry would have wished me to say.

"Independent, unilateral reporting, free from official strictures, is crucial; not simply to us as journalists but to the role we play in a free and democratic society." ............

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6046950.stm

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"I have no doubt it was the fact that the vehicle stopped to pick up survivors that prompted the Americans to fire on that vehicle," he said

So what part of this is so difficult to comprehend? You come to the aid of the enemy while under fire - what do you expect?

Would you like a moist towelette to go with your gun battle?

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cjhsa wrote:

"I have no doubt it was the fact that the vehicle stopped to pick up survivors that prompted the Americans to fire on that vehicle," he said

So what part of this is so difficult to comprehend? You come to the aid of the enemy while under fire - what do you expect?

Would you like a moist towelette to go with your gun battle?

Who said the survivors were "enemies"? Confused

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msolga wrote:

Mr Walker said he was recording a verdict of unlawful killing because Lloyd had been fatally wounded when he was being rescued by a civilian minibus in full view of American tanks.

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,,1921611,00.html

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Quote:

Last weekend Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who had spent years campaigning against Russia's policy in Chechnya and highlighting torture and other human rights abuses, became the 109th journalist killed this year.

Within hours of her death, two German TV journalists who were working in Afghanistan were also killed.

On Thursday several more journalists, technicians and security guards were killed in an attack on a TV station in Baghdad.

Ms Cohen said journalists seemed to be finding it increasingly difficult to have their impartiality respected.

"We believe that journalists are neutral observers who are just there to report the facts. But unfortunately the combatants in a lot of conflicts around the world do not seem to share that view."

She said very few journalists' killers were ever convicted.
Mr McLaughlin said: "Terry Lloyd was the victim not just of an unlawful killing, but also of a war crime. We would like to see the British government pressing charges against whoever was responsible."

The NUJ's general secretary Jeremy Dear said: "The killing of journalists with impunity must never, ever go unpunished. Any attempt to silence journalists in this way must never succeed."

Source

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Dramatic difference there Walt. Surprised you posted that.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

"We believe that journalists are neutral observers who are just there to report the facts. But unfortunately the combatants in a lot of conflicts around the world do not seem to share that view."

.... The NUJ's general secretary Jeremy Dear said: "The killing of journalists with impunity must never, ever go unpunished. Any attempt to silence journalists in this way must never succeed."

Source

Hear, hear!

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cjhsa wrote:

Dramatic difference there Walt. Surprised you posted that.

What "dramatic differences"? It's from an article by the BBC about that trial.

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An accident vs. targeted killing of journalists. This guy was clearly in the wrong place and wrong van at the wrong time. How you can argue your side of this issue is beyond comprehension.

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unlawfully killed

Yeah that aout sums it up.........

and the Italian woman.......
oww and the 655,000 Iraqis, makes ya wanna sing with fu*** pride.

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cjhsa wrote:

DrewDad wrote:
msolga wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Those condoning criminal behavior disgust me.

What criminal behaviour, exactly?

Shooting a bus carrying wounded people?

Q: How do you tell the difference between a minivan and an Iraqi military vehicle?

A: You can't.

Q: How do you tell the difference between a threat and a non-threat?

A: Use your brain.

Give me evidence that the bus was a threat, and I'll concede the point. Randomly firing at unmarked vehicles does not sound like a good military strategy.

You have seen the video of soldiers randomly firing on vehicles following their humvees, right?

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What we have here at A2K is a bunch of folks unwilling to accept any military strategy or anything to do with guns and killing as acceptable.

Screw that. If 9/11 and other atrocities didn't change your mind then nothing will. Please, move to the middle east or north Korea, the nukes are coming.

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cjhsa wrote:

What we have here at A2K is a bunch of folks unwilling to accept any military strategy or anything to do with guns and killing as acceptable.

I'm rather sure that Andrew Walker, the assistant deputy coroner for Oxfordshire, isn't a member of A2K (but who knows?).

I sincerely doubt, however, that the verdict had to enclose any military strategy.

Since the UK is a democratic country with laws and a working justice system, coroners, courts etc quite often don't accept killings. They rule them to be unlawful.
Which is shared by nearly all besides criminals.

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Bah, no more time for talk. Glass it over before they do unto us. Make the middle east a skate park.

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cjhsa wrote:

Those sympathetic with the enemy disgust me.

Those imbued with human sympathy disgust you...and you them.

So...what else is new?

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Here in the U.S we love our "embedded journalists", as it makes for good copy. If they happen to get wounded or killed, it makes for even better copy.

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dlowan wrote:

cjhsa wrote:
Those sympathetic with the enemy disgust me.

Those imbued with human sympathy disgust you...and you them.

So...what else is new?

Nothing, but you would make a lousy soldier, likely killed by friendly if you ever made it past basic training. Another reason why women rarely see combat.

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Re: US troops unlawfully killed UK journalist, coroner finds

msolga wrote:

Last Update: Friday, October 13, 2006. 10:20pm (AEST)

US troops unlawfully killed UK journalist, coroner finds

A British inquest has ruled one of Britain's most experienced journalists was unlawfully killed by US soldiers in Iraq, prompting calls for the perpetrators to be tried for war crimes.

Veteran war correspondent Terry Lloyd, 50, who worked for British television company ITN, was killed in March 2003 in southern Iraq as he reported from the front line during the first few days of the US-led invasion.

"He was fired on by American soldiers as a minibus carried wounded people away," Coroner Andrew Walker said at the conclusion of the inquest, which US soldiers declined to attend.

"I have no doubt it was an unlawful act of fire on the minibus."

Mr Walker says he intends to write to the Attorney-General and the Director of Public Prosecutions in an effort to bring those responsible for Lloyd's death before a British court.

Louis Charalambous, the Lloyd family's lawyer, says those responsible for his death should be brought to trial, for what he termed "a very serious war crime."

"It was a despicable, deliberate, vengeful act," he added.

He says the unlawful killing verdict had been "inescapable" and has come about because "US forces appear to have allowed their soldiers to behave like trigger-happy cowboys."

Mr Charalambous says the Marines who fired on Lloyd, and their superiors, should stand trial for murder - a sentiment echoed by Lloyd's employers.

David Mannion, the company's editor-in-chief, says ITN will support any moves to bring those "responsible for Terry's death to account before a court of law."

Lloyd, who had reported from Iraq, Cambodia, Bosnia and Kosovo during his award-winning career, was initially wounded in the stomach.

He was then shot in the head by US troops after he had been picked up and put in an Iraqi minibus, the court heard.

His translator, Hussein Othman, was also killed while French cameraman Fred Nerac, is still missing believed dead.

The other cameraman, Daniel Demoustier, was the only one to survive.

-Reuters

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1764729.htm

That is a sad story...here are other takes on it from other media sources:

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/article/131006/ifj_terry_lloyd_united_states_iraq_journalists

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1892220,00.html

http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=3519

and the Beebs:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6048226.stm

Lloyd ruling could test legal will
Legal affairs analyst Jon Silverman considers whether a prosecution is likely after a coroner said ITN reporter Terry Lloyd - shot dead by US forces in southern Iraq in March 2003 - was unlawfully killed.

A finding of unlawful killing is the strongest verdict a coroner can record.

The coroner's court viewed footage of the aftermath of the attack

The standard of proof required to reach such a verdict is "beyond reasonable doubt" and thus carries the same weight as that of a criminal court.

By referring the papers to the director of public prosecutions and the attorney general, the coroner, Andrew Walker, is inviting them to consider a criminal prosecution against those responsible for Terry Lloyd's death.

But the decision rests with the legal authorities.

The director of the campaigning group Inquest, Deborah Coles, said the record of the DPP in acting on such referrals was not a good one.

"This is a significant verdict and a criminal prosecution should follow if those held to be culpable can be identified.

"I would expect the DPP, at the very least, to order a thorough review of all the facts which might yield evidence which was not available to the coroner."

First Gulf War

However, history does not point to a prosecution.

In 1992, the same coroner's court, Oxford, returned verdicts of unlawful killing in the case of nine British soldiers killed by US "friendly fire" during the first Gulf War.

Lawyer Mark Stephens represented the families of those killed.

Coroner Andrew Walker referred the case to the attorney general

"In that case, the coroner did not send the papers to the DPP or the attorney general because those responsible for the deaths were outside the jurisdiction.

"There was a diplomatic fall-out from the verdicts but nothing more.

"But law has moved on and I would think the chance of a prosecution is much stronger this time."

The intentional killing of a civilian or non-combatant by armed forces is unlawful under the first additional protocol to the Geneva Conventions of 1977.

In an international conflict such as the invasion of Iraq, it could be prosecuted as wilful killing.

The statute of the International Criminal Court specifies that an accused is to be convicted if the offence was committed "with intent and knowledge".

The original 1949 Geneva Convention rules specifically provide safeguards for journalists in time of conflict and although they were tailored for the accreditation of uniformed war correspondents, a "unilateral" such as Terry Lloyd should have been able to rely on protection under international law.

In recent years, Britain has shown itself willing to implement the concept of universal jurisdiction - that an offence committed abroad can be tried in a British court.

Terry Lloyd's death at the hands of US forces, with all its diplomatic sensitivities, may test to the limit the attorney general's resolve to uphold the concept.

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cjhsa wrote:

dlowan wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
Those sympathetic with the enemy disgust me.

Those imbued with human sympathy disgust you...and you them.

So...what else is new?

Nothing, but you would make a lousy soldier, likely killed by friendly if you ever made it past basic training. Another reason why women rarely see combat.

Don't we?

Your view is typically narrow and devoid of all but the most basic intelligence.

Have a look at how many women have died in Iraq, just as a starter...not to mention the millions in other wars.

Women just generally do not get paid for being killed......like other civilians we see the pointy end of combat all too often....

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So sorry you're letting this imbecilic punk distract you, dlowan.

Pay no attention to the sound of the chest-pounding. He'd probably blush and cower and look for his guns if he tried to face you in person.

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US troops unlawfully killed UK journalist, coroner finds.

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