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Isn't it ironic?

 
 
coberst
 
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Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 06:18 am
Aidan

They are not evil they have a different value system than you and I.
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aidan
 
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Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 06:56 am
I guess that's one way of looking at it - or are you being ironic?

But seriously, I hesitate to ascribe such negative motives to people (even George Bush) without proof. I mean, do you think he'd implement a policy that would essentially deny a whole group of American students a viable hope for an education? That'd be pretty short-sighted - although I guess by the time these kids get into the working world, he'll be out of office and the whole scenario of an uneducated, untrained work force (even moreso than the one we have now) will become someone elses problem.
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coberst
 
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Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 07:24 am
aidan wrote:
I guess that's one way of looking at it - or are you being ironic?

But seriously, I hesitate to ascribe such negative motives to people (even George Bush) without proof. I mean, do you think he'd implement a policy that would essentially deny a whole group of American students a viable hope for an education? That'd be pretty short-sighted - although I guess by the time these kids get into the working world, he'll be out of office and the whole scenario of an uneducated, untrained work force (even moreso than the one we have now) will become someone elses problem.


I think that if he framed the issue as you frame it he would agree with you. However, I do not think that he would frame it in that way. We are all the result of our past to a large extent. Bush is a captive of his character and world view that has been developed in the past and like all of us we cannot overcome our character until we change our character and our worldview which takes much time and effort.
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aidan
 
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Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 11:09 am
How'd you get so wise? And I'm not being sarcastic, or ironic.

I agree with you about that. And that's part of the reason that I think George Bush doesn't do these things maliciously. I don't think his background or upbringing prepared him to be cruel or hateful or evil. I think he truly believes he's trying to do the best thing for the most people in most situations. Unfortunately, a lot of times it seems the decisions he makes are misguided (at least to me) and their effects are devastating - as you said before. Sometimes I think he's just a good ol' boy who's in over his head. It was unbelievable that the American people voted him in the first time- in fact, I don't think we did - but it was doubly unbelievable that they (not me) voted him in a second time. He's just not presidential material and that was obvious from the get go. Now we (and children all over the world) are paying the price...
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coberst
 
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Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 02:33 pm
The old saying "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". One might excuse the American people for the mistake in 2000 but the reelection says something about the American people that should give us reason to seriously question our commitment to accepting the responsibilities that a democracy demands of its citizens.
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aidan
 
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Reply Sat 14 Oct, 2006 01:38 am
Yes, and it also makes some of the questions you ask on this forum really applicable in a practical sense. Can decisions and choices in and of themselves be immoral? And in a democracy, where there is a choice, if someone votes for someone and gives their implicit approval of the decisions that person makes that are harmful, are they in any way responsible for those outcomes?
And the whole issue of critical thinking - did the American public show any ability to think critically about what electing George Bush as our president might mean? Are there even enough critical thinkers in the country to support a successful democracy?

I'm not separating this by party lines. I think most people tend to vote their party rather than for the actual person. That's why I think the primaries are so important- each party needs to offer a viable choice - because basically in the end, I believe most republicans will vote republican and most democrats will vote democrat - regardless of who the candidate is and what his skills are- with the exception of those voters who are able to discern and think critically.

Sorry to get so far off the subject of irony - I keep trying to think of a way to get myself back on it - but I haven't- so maybe you can. Anyway - thanks for the discussion. I found it really interesting.
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coberst
 
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Reply Sat 14 Oct, 2006 04:59 am
Aidan

You might like George Soros' new book "The Age of Fallability". I think it is great and well worth the study. I mean study because no one can get much out of this book without study.
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