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Is evolution guided by a set of principles/laws?

 
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 02:00 am
Is evolution guided by a set of laws/principles or it occurs randomly?

Assume for a while that the Evolution theory is correct (and Intelligent Design in falsehood) and then try answering this.

I think it "is" guided by laws. We all know about the postulates of Lamarck and Darwin. But, recently, I encountered a counter-view to this from a person who stated :

Quote:
If evolution followed any rules/laws new species would never originate. Evolution would become too predictable. It is a random process.



What do you think?
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 03:11 am
Re: Is evolution guided by a set of principles/laws?
spidergal wrote:
Quote:
If evolution followed any rules/laws new species would never originate. Evolution would become too predictable. It is a random process.


I'm taken aback by people who make such adamant declarations.

Evolution can follow one simple rule : species evolve in order to adapt to their environment. The best fit survive. Does it prevent the generation of new species? I don't think so.
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spidergal
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 03:18 am
Re: Is evolution guided by a set of principles/laws?
Francis wrote:
spidergal wrote:
Quote:
If evolution followed any rules/laws new species would never originate. Evolution would become too predictable. It is a random process.


I'm taken aback by people who make such adamant declarations.

Evolution can follow one simple rule : species evolve in order to adapt to their environment. The best fit survive. Does it prevent the generation of new species? I don't think so.


Yes, that is what I think. Even speciation is an organised process.
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kitchenpete
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 03:28 am
Fundamental genetics has certain parameters within which evolution can take place. I suppose you could call them rules or laws, if you like.

Differentiation of "families" or types within a species can then lead to speciation, particularly if there is a dividing factor such as isolation of one group from the others "allopatric speciation".

Richard Dawkins in "The Selfish Gene" and other writing addresses in a much more modern way the ideas which Darwin started. Darwin himself was deeply Christian and did not wish to undermine the principles of that religion, rather to wonder at the manner in which (in his eyes) God had created the world.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 07:49 am
There is a general principle of evolution.

There are genetic constraints on evolution which you could call laws.

And there are many emergent phenomena in evolution, because like many complex systems when you have some simple rules being applied to a large system small probabilistic events can result in larger changes in the population as a whole.

Speciation is the obvious emergent phenomena here. But there are different ways for this to occur that are not obvious. The most obvious causes are probably geographic separation or social separation...but for instance, my mom is currently doing research showing how it can also occur in unseparated populations.
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 07:54 am
1. Those creatures best suited to survive tend statistically to do so more often than creatures less adapted to their environment.

2. From time to time a new trait is introduced into the gene pool by any of various sources of error.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 11:26 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
1. Those creatures best suited to survive tend statistically to do so more often than creatures less adapted to their environment.

2. From time to time a new trait is introduced into the gene pool by any of various sources of error.


You completely forgot to mention that genes are past on to the next generation, as well as factors that affect who mates with whom. And this is where unexpected things can happen that make it more complicated than it sounds.
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wandeljw
 
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Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 11:47 am
People opposed to the teaching of evolution erroneously criticize evolutionary theory as being dependant on random events.

Professor Elliot Sober of the University of Wisconsin explains that the opposite is true:

Quote:
The process of evolution by natural selection is not a uniform chance process. The process has two parts. Novel traits arise in individual organisms "by chance;" however, whether they then disappear from the population or increase in frequency and eventually reach 100% representation is anything but a "matter of chance." The central idea of natural selection is that traits that help organisms survive and reproduce have a better chance at becoming common than traits that hurt. The essence of natural selection is that evolutionary outcomes have unequal probabilities.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 12:16 pm
David Quammen, a science writer for National Geographic Magazine, gives a very clear explanation of what evolutionary theory states:

Quote:
The gist of the concept is that small, random, heritable differences among individuals result in survival and reproduction?-success for some, death without offspring for others?-and that this natural culling leads to significant changes in shape, size, strength, armament, color, biochemistry, and behavior among the descendants. Excess population growth drives the competitive struggle. Because less successful competitors produce fewer surviving offspring, the useless or negative variations tend to disappear, whereas the useful variations tend to be perpetuated and gradually magnified throughout a population.

So much for one part of the evolutionary process, known as anagenesis, during which a single species is transformed. But there's also a second part, known as speciation. Genetic changes sometimes accumulate within an isolated segment of a species, but not throughout the whole, as that isolated population adapts to its local conditions. Gradually it goes its own way, seizing a new ecological niche. At a certain point it becomes irreversibly distinct?-that is, so different that its members can't interbreed with the rest. Two species now exist where formerly there was one. Darwin called that splitting-and-specializing phenomenon the "principle of divergence." It was an important part of his theory, explaining the overall diversity of life as well as the adaptation of individual species.

The evidence, as he presented it, mostly fell within four categories: biogeography, paleontology, embryology, and morphology. Biogeography is the study of the geographical distribution of living creatures?-that is, which species inhabit which parts of the planet and why. Paleontology investigates extinct life-forms, as revealed in the fossil record. Embryology examines the revealing stages of development (echoing earlier stages of evolutionary history) that embryos pass through before birth or hatching; at a stretch, embryology also concerns the immature forms of animals that metamorphose, such as the larvae of insects. Morphology is the science of anatomical shape and design. Darwin devoted sizable sections of The Origin of Species to these categories.

Biogeography, for instance, offered a great pageant of peculiar facts and patterns. Anyone who considers the biogeographical data, Darwin wrote, must be struck by the mysterious clustering pattern among what he called "closely allied" species?-that is, similar creatures sharing roughly the same body plan. Such closely allied species tend to be found on the same continent (several species of zebras in Africa) or within the same group of oceanic islands (dozens of species of honeycreepers in Hawaii, 13 species of Galápagos finch), despite their species-by-species preferences for different habitats, food sources, or conditions of climate. Adjacent areas of South America, Darwin noted, are occupied by two similar species of large, flightless birds (the rheas, Rhea americana and Pterocnemia pennata), not by ostriches as in Africa or emus as in Australia. South America also has agoutis and viscachas (small rodents) in terrestrial habitats, plus coypus and capybaras in the wetlands, not?-as Darwin wrote?-hares and rabbits in terrestrial habitats or beavers and muskrats in the wetlands. During his own youthful visit to the Galápagos, aboard the survey ship Beagle, Darwin himself had discovered three very similar forms of mockingbird, each on a different island.

Why should "closely allied" species inhabit neighboring patches of habitat? And why should similar habitat on different continents be occupied by species that aren't so closely allied? "We see in these facts some deep organic bond, prevailing throughout space and time," Darwin wrote. "This bond, on my theory, is simply inheritance." Similar species occur nearby in space because they have descended from common ancestors.

Paleontology reveals a similar clustering pattern in the dimension of time. The vertical column of geologic strata, laid down by sedimentary processes over the eons, lightly peppered with fossils, represents a tangible record showing which species lived when. Less ancient layers of rock lie atop more ancient ones (except where geologic forces have tipped or shuffled them), and likewise with the animal and plant fossils that the strata contain. What Darwin noticed about this record is that closely allied species tend to be found adjacent to one another in successive strata. One species endures for millions of years and then makes its last appearance in, say, the middle Eocene epoch; just above, a similar but not identical species replaces it. In North America, for example, a vaguely horselike creature known as Hyracotherium was succeeded by Orohippus, then Epihippus, then Mesohippus, which in turn were succeeded by a variety of horsey American critters. Some of them even galloped across the Bering land bridge into Asia, then onward to Europe and Africa. By five million years ago they had nearly all disappeared, leaving behind Dinohippus, which was succeeded by Equus, the modern genus of horse. Not all these fossil links had been unearthed in Darwin's day, but he captured the essence of the matter anyway. Again, were such sequences just coincidental? No, Darwin argued. Closely allied species succeed one another in time, as well as living nearby in space, because they're related through evolutionary descent.

Embryology too involved patterns that couldn't be explained by coincidence. Why does the embryo of a mammal pass through stages resembling stages of the embryo of a reptile? Why is one of the larval forms of a barnacle, before metamorphosis, so similar to the larval form of a shrimp? Why do the larvae of moths, flies, and beetles resemble one another more than any of them resemble their respective adults? Because, Darwin wrote, "the embryo is the animal in its less modified state" and that state "reveals the structure of its progenitor."

Morphology, his fourth category of evidence, was the "very soul" of natural history, according to Darwin. Even today it's on display in the layout and organization of any zoo. Here are the monkeys, there are the big cats, and in that building are the alligators and crocodiles. Birds in the aviary, fish in the aquarium. Living creatures can be easily sorted into a hierarchy of categories?-not just species but genera, families, orders, whole kingdoms?-based on which anatomical characters they share and which they don't.

All vertebrate animals have backbones. Among vertebrates, birds have feathers, whereas reptiles have scales. Mammals have fur and mammary glands, not feathers or scales. Among mammals, some have pouches in which they nurse their tiny young. Among these species, the marsupials, some have huge rear legs and strong tails by which they go hopping across miles of arid outback; we call them kangaroos. Bring in modern microscopic and molecular evidence, and you can trace the similarities still further back. All plants and fungi, as well as animals, have nuclei within their cells. All living organisms contain DNA and RNA (except some viruses with RNA only), two related forms of information-coding molecules.

Such a pattern of tiered resemblances?-groups of similar species nested within broader groupings, and all descending from a single source?-isn't naturally present among other collections of items. You won't find anything equivalent if you try to categorize rocks, or musical instruments, or jewelry. Why not? Because rock types and styles of jewelry don't reflect unbroken descent from common ancestors. Biological diversity does. The number of shared characteristics between any one species and another indicates how recently those two species have diverged from a shared lineage.
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spidergal
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 12:20 pm
Thank you Wandel and others. I'll read the scientist's comments ASAP.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 07:24 pm
Re: Is evolution guided by a set of principles/laws?
spidergal wrote:
Is evolution guided by a set of principles/laws?


Yes. Evolution is guided by the principle of Natural Selection. It is the only guiding factor.

Reproduction (copying) is the foundation.
Variation is the fuel.
Selection is the guide.

Natural Selection is unavoidable and inevitable for any system in which reproduction is disproportionately successful based on the viability of each copy.

There are a myriad of factors which affect variation, but Natural Selection is uniquely different, it is the only non-randomizing factor in the process of evolution.
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spidergal
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2006 04:32 am
Yes, Natural selection. But, don't you think Lamarck's postulates too reflect some truth?
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2006 07:09 am
spidergal wrote:
Yes, Natural selection. But, don't you think Lamarck's postulates too reflect some truth?


Lamarck is generally remembered mainly in connection with the discredited theory of "inheritance of acquired traits".

Organisms do not pass on traits which are acquired during their lifetimes, because those traits do not alter the genetic structure of the organism.

Is there some other postulate from Lamarck which you are asking about?
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Quincy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2006 02:11 pm
Wouldn't there be a genetic root for the propensity to acquire new traits, and this would be passed on?
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2006 02:28 pm
Quincy wrote:
Wouldn't there be a genetic root for the propensity to acquire new traits, and this would be passed on?


No, there is no mechanism to 'acquire' traits, so there is nothing to pass on.

Once an organism is conceived, it's genetic code is fixed, the code doesn't change.

Because the genetics of an organism do not change, it is impossible to 'acquire' traits in the way Lamarck described (by behaviors or events). For ecample, if an animal looses a leg during its life, it will not produce offspring with a missing leg.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2006 02:37 pm
Quincy wrote:
Wouldn't there be a genetic root for the propensity to acquire new traits, and this would be passed on?


YES, there are genetic factors that affect the mutability of one's genetic code as well as the reliability of the transcription process. These factors have evolved to a local optimum.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2006 02:39 pm
stuh505 wrote:
Quincy wrote:
Wouldn't there be a genetic root for the propensity to acquire new traits, and this would be passed on?


YES, there are genetic factors that affect the mutability of one's genetic code as well as the reliability of the transcription process. These factors have evolved to a local optimum.


All of which has nothing to do with acquisition.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2006 03:09 pm
Quote:
All of which has nothing to do with acquisition.


Sure it does. Acquisition of new traits happens during transcription, so it has everything to do with it.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2006 03:13 pm
stuh505 wrote:
Quote:
All of which has nothing to do with acquisition.


Sure it does. Acquisition of new traits happens during transcription, so it has everything to do with it.


What kind of acquisition are you talking about?

The question was about acquisition of traits the way Lamarck described it.
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2006 03:15 pm
rosborne979 wrote:
No, there is no mechanism to 'acquire' traits, so there is nothing to pass on.

Once an organism is conceived, it's genetic code is fixed, the code doesn't change.


I think it would be possible to be infected by a virus that modified the DNA of reproductive cells
0 Replies
 
 

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