Ubuntu

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Bill Clinton spoke on the idea that wide-spread acceptance of Ubuntu (an African philosophy) as a way of thinking would make the world a much better place. The idea (ubuntu) says that a single person would be nothing without his neighbors/family/community - that life would be meaningless without those other people.

BBC

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In [Desmond Tutu's] definition, it means that there is a common bond between people - and when one person's circumstances improve, everyone gains and if one person is tortured or oppressed, everyone is diminished.

Mr Tutu's identification with ubuntu has given rise to the idea of "ubuntu theology" - where ethical responsibility comes with a shared identity. If someone is hungry, the ubuntu response is that we're all collectively responsible.

There is a spiritual as well as practical dimension to this - with ubuntu reflecting the idea that we're part of a long chain of human experience, connecting us to previous and future generations.

Ubuntu has also entered the language of development and fair trade - with campaigners using the word in aid projects for Africa in ways that suggest this will be an African solution for African problems.

Ironically, says Rob Cunningham, Christian Aid's programme manager for South Africa, just as the word is taking off in Western society the values it embodies are in decline in the land of its origin.

So, would it help? I certainly think so. It is akin to our welfare system and the idea of national healthcare. Does anyone know more about Ubuntu?

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By way of a bookmark:

No man is an island
Entire unto itself.
Each man is a piece of the continent,
a part of the main.
If a clod be washed away,
Europe is the less.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore send not to ask
For whom the bell tolls:
It tolls for thee.

John Donne
(1572-1631)

[Quoted from memory, so pardon any errors, please.]

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I don't know anything else, but if it was possible, than a communist utopia would also be possible, or any other utopia i suppose. i'm skeptical when it comes to people. arrrgh, feeling dark today.

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People can rot. All we do is stand in the way of the great cockroach ascendancy.

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Quote:

if it was possible, than a communist utopia would also be possible, or any other utopia i suppose

ITA, and of course, that utopia would include..... "national healthcare."

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that said, i do have to get off my dark horse and agree that everybody who has anything to say about morals should start from oneself. sweep in front of your own door first, as we say... so i'll agree with the approach - peace starts from me.

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I think it is typical "ivory tower" thinking. (And I'm not in a dark mood -- just a rational one!)

Goodnight, everybody!

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Interesting choice of words, Stray. Ivory tower. Seems like it's ebony tower thinking.

I guess that even when you're tied to your community, you will have some sort or level of nationalism. Maybe it's regionalism, maybe it's tribalism, maybe it's something else less defined than national boundaries. And those feelings of belonging can fuel warfare as much as anything else, no?

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ooooh yes. that and religion. best fire starters these days.

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Mmmm

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Ubuntu crashes on my laptop...

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huh?

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Quote:

And those feelings of belonging can fuel warfare as much as anything else, no?

Yes, but I think most modern day wars have been fought over economic reasons -- unless you go all the way back to the Christian Crusades -- or the Islamic fundamentalists of today. (However, there are obviously severe economic issues underlying their fundamentalist grievances.)

The problem is, no matter what philosophy you try to apply, the economic factors can't be escaped -- or ever completely solved.

Ok, now I really have to go to bed...so I'll leave everyone else here to kick this around!

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It's a wonderful philosophy. Something to strive for, at least, on an individual basis.

I doubt that it's collectively attainable.

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I think we're all taking the wrong approach to this. Everbody seems to be asking, is this a pragmatic idea, will it work? And they're answering, hell, no, it's utopian thinking. I don't think that's really the point. I don't think that either Clinton or Tutu are suggesting that this is a solution to all the world's ills, that it will end warfare, bring people together, etc. etc. The Golden Rule isn't going to save the world either. Does that make it a bad idea? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you isn't utopian -- it's simply a good guideline for one's individual daily behavior. It is a statement of what is desireable, not a prescription for what will bring miraculous results.

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I like that angle Merry!

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Yes, me too.

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littlek wrote:

huh?

Ubuntu is also a popular operating system, a new flavor of linux...

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littlek wrote:

Interesting choice of words, Stray. Ivory tower. Seems like it's ebony tower thinking.

I guess that even when you're tied to your community, you will have some sort or level of nationalism. Maybe it's regionalism, maybe it's tribalism, maybe it's something else less defined than national boundaries. And those feelings of belonging can fuel warfare as much as anything else, no?

It looks more like humanism to me. I like it.

I think John Forbes Nash had a similar theory but spelt it more mathematically.

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A tear-jerker of an article at the Atlanta-Journal Constitution ties, in a way, Ubuntu to the Amish community's reaction to the school house shootings. Gilbert Tuhabonye survived a schoolhouse massacre in Burundi in 1993 and published his own book about the ordeal, including the forgiveness he came to.

AJC

Quote:

Breaking a cycle

Tuhabonye knows about those miracles. He was the lone survivor that day in 1993 after the mob attacked his high school. He wielded the charred bone from a classmate's body to break a window and flee from a fire the mob had set when they trapped him and others in his school.

Tuhabonye says he was walking the streets of Burundi later when the man who commanded the mob saw him. The leader ran and collapsed at Tuhabonye's feet, begging for his life.

"Please forgive me," the mob leader said. "I didn't know what I was doing. The government made me do it."

The words made Tuhabonye's heart race. He pointed the gun in the man's face and vowed to kill him. But he didn't pull the trigger.

"I told him, 'Get out of here. Run!' " he recalled.

Tuhabonye says he didn't fire because it would have created an "unending cycle."

"I chose forgiveness," he said. "I wanted a better world."

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