The Myth About Free Salvation?

Midion one thing i have enjoyed about your topics is that they are thought provoking...... Very Happy

I understand what you are trying to say and by websters definition of free, it can be confusing...I cant seem to find a verse in the bible that says "free gift" but i know this is a common term used by christians when speaking on salvation....I can however give you the greek definition for gift as used in the new testiment....
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. romans 6:23

gift (Cavrisma) def. the gift of divine grace
the gift of faith, knowledge, holiness, virtue
the economy of divine grace, by which the pardon of sin and eternal salvation is appointed to sinners in consideration of the merits of Christ laid hold of by faith

Remember salvation is a gift bc everyone is given the opportunity...God doesn't pick whom he will bestow that gift on by certain requirements or services etc...we get it on Christs merits not ours..that is why christians may say its free.....

0 Replies

kate4christ03 wrote:

Midion one thing i have enjoyed about your topics is that they are thought provoking......

I understand what you are trying to say and by websters definition of free, it can be confusing...I cant seem to find a verse in the bible that says "free gift" but i know this is a common term used by christians when speaking on salvation....I can however give you the greek definition for gift as used in the new testiment....
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. romans 6:23

gift (Cavrisma) def. the gift of divine grace
the gift of faith, knowledge, holiness, virtue
the economy of divine grace, by which the pardon of sin and eternal salvation is appointed to sinners in consideration of the merits of Christ laid hold of by faith

Remember salvation is a gift bc everyone is given the opportunity...God doesn't pick whom he will bestow that gift on by certain requirements or services etc...we get it on Christs merits not ours..that is why christians may say its free.....

First off we would like to say, thank you. We would hope that sope of these topics would at least lead one to think.

Now if it is because of the opportunity, then the opportunity is free and not the salvation. For example; First, Let us say that there is a contest of speed or a race, which promises a million dollars to the winner. Now let us say that you and everyone else are allowed to enter that race without paying the entry fee. In other words the entry fee is waived. Now, let us say that we are at the conclusion of that race and you have just won the contest and a million dollars. Now, was the million dollars free or was it earned? The answer is that it was earned. You still have to run the race and you still had to exert the energy and determination to win that race.

You see people tend to mistake the opportunity which One is given to run the race (which is free) with the prize which one wins (which is not). Man's opportunity to gain Salvation is through Grace which is free. Grace is the free gift and not the reward which is Salvation. God doesn't have to allow you to enter the race for Salvation. He doesn't have to waive that entry fee. He could just allow you to die and automatically dismiss you from that race. But by his Grace he doesn't. So Grace is the opportunity which allows you the chance to obtain salvation. Without Grace you would not even be allowed in that race. Without Grace man would have been destroyed a long time ago.

Now if you look the Bible states that salvation is obtained. Therefore if it is obtained then it is not free.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Hebrews 6:15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise

Definitions Merriam Webster
Obtain: (vrb)
transitive verb : to gain or attain usually by planned action or effort
intransitive verb
1 archaic : SUCCEED
2 : to be generally recognized or established : PREVAIL

0 Replies

kate4christ03 wrote:

Midion one thing i have enjoyed about your topics is that they are thought provoking......

I understand what you are trying to say and by websters definition of free, it can be confusing...I cant seem to find a verse in the bible that says "free gift" but i know this is a common term used by christians when speaking on salvation....I can however give you the greek definition for gift as used in the new testiment....
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. romans 6:23

gift (Cavrisma) def. the gift of divine grace
the gift of faith, knowledge, holiness, virtue
the economy of divine grace, by which the pardon of sin and eternal salvation is appointed to sinners in consideration of the merits of Christ laid hold of by faith

Remember salvation is a gift bc everyone is given the opportunity...God doesn't pick whom he will bestow that gift on by certain requirements or services etc...we get it on Christs merits not ours..that is why christians may say its free.....

First off we would like to say, thank you. We would hope that sope of these topics would at least lead one to think.

Now if it is because of the opportunity, then the opportunity is free and not the salvation. For example; First, Let us say that there is a contest of speed or a race, which promises a million dollars to the winner. Now let us say that you and everyone else are allowed to enter that race without paying the entry fee. In other words the entry fee is waived. Now, let us say that we are at the conclusion of that race and you have just won the contest and a million dollars. Now, was the million dollars free or was it earned? The answer is that it was earned. You still have to run the race and you still had to exert the energy and determination to win that race.

You see people tend to mistake the opportunity which One is given to run the race (which is free) with the prize which one wins (which is not). Man's opportunity to gain Salvation is through Grace which is free. Grace is the free gift and not the reward which is Salvation. God doesn't have to allow you to enter the race for Salvation. He doesn't have to waive that entry fee. He could just allow you to die and automatically dismiss you from that race. But by his Grace he doesn't. So Grace is the opportunity which allows you the chance to obtain salvation. Without Grace you would not even be allowed in that race. Without Grace man would have been destroyed a long time ago.

Now if you look the Bible states that salvation is obtained. Therefore if it is obtained then it is not free.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Hebrews 6:15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise

Definitions Merriam Webster
Obtain: (vrb)
transitive verb : to gain or attain usually by planned action or effort
intransitive verb
1 archaic : SUCCEED
2 : to be generally recognized or established : PREVAIL

0 Replies

As soon as i started reading this a verse came to mind.

Quote:

Romans 6:17-18
17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Quote:

We are set free from the world so we can be a slave to god. Pretty disturbing thuaght to me.

0 Replies

Midion Not trying to be rude but did you read a thing i said........I said that nowhere in the bible (that ive found) does it say salvation is a free gift...that is a phrase coined by some christians..but the bible does specifically says that salvation is a gift from God..i gave that verse in my previous post...and the bible also says that its Grace through faith that saves (not works)...what these two verses are saying is that its by Christ's merits we are offered the gift of salvation...Now I dont believe that we just walk around and one day God slaps us on the head and says "your saved"...we do have to do something to be saved we have to accept the gift that God is offering.......and by accepting that we have to repent and believe.......for instance i offer you a brand new car....that is a gift but its not truly yours unless you accept that gift and get the tags and title......until then it sits in my garage waiting upon you......

0 Replies

EpiNirvana wrote

Quote:

We are set free from the world so we can be a slave to god. Pretty disturbing thuaght to me

not if its by choice :wink:

0 Replies

kate4christ03 wrote:

Midion Not trying to be rude but did you read a thing i said........I said that nowhere in the bible (that ive found) does it say salvation is a free gift...that is a phrase coined by some christians..but the bible does specifically says that salvation is a gift from God..i gave that verse in my previous post...and the bible also says that its Grace through faith that saves (not works)...what these two verses are saying is that its by Christ's merits we are offered the gift of salvation...Now I dont believe that we just walk around and one day God slaps us on the head and says "your saved"...we do have to do something to be saved we have to accept the gift that God is offering.......and by accepting that we have to repent and believe.......for instance i offer you a brand new car....that is a gift but its not truly yours unless you accept that gift and get the tags and title......until then it sits in my garage waiting upon you......

Yes but if you offer us that brand new car and tell us that in order to accept that car we must confess that you are the greatest person in the world, then it is no longer free. This is because by setting forth that condition, the car is no longer free. It now becomes attached to a condition. Free means that all that One has to do to recieve the gift is be or exist. So if we make that confession we have then fulfilled that condition which you requested and we can then take the car.

So, if Salvation is truly free, then One doesn't have to confess Jesus as Lord and Savior in order to recieve it. All that One has to do is exist. The foundation of Grace is free. You don't have to do anything but occupy a body in this physical world and it is yours.

0 Replies

MIDION nowhere does it say free ........its called a gift.....and if i give you a car with the stipulation that you have to get a tag and title its still a gift.....

and the foundation of Gods grace is his love...but we can still reject that love and that grace..........

0 Replies

EpiNirvana wrote:

As soon as i started reading this a verse came to mind.

Quote:
Romans 6:17-18
17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

We are set free from the world so we can be a slave to god. Pretty disturbing thuaght to me.

Servant is the word used there. There is a difference between a servant and a slave. Slavery is bondage. Ownership by someone to do their will without choice or compensation. Servants however serve of their free will. Not because they are made to, but because they choose to. They are compensated for their services, and are free to leave at any time.

0 Replies

I am not sure where you got the term... free salvation. However, I am assuming you may be referring to something out of Romans.

i.e.
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The "free gift of grace" IS free. All that is required is that it be accepted.

0 Replies

EpiNirvana wrote:

As soon as i started reading this a verse came to mind.

Quote:
Romans 6:17-18
17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Quote:

We are set free from the world so we can be a slave to god. Pretty disturbing thuaght to me.

That is a complete mistranslation.

Here is the correct translation.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

It is not slave.
The word is SERVANT.
Big Difference there.

0 Replies

Scott777ab wrote:

That is a complete mistranslation.

Here is the correct translation.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

It is not slave.
The word is SERVANT.
Big Difference there.

You kinda-sorta almost do have a point there, in a way ... however, whether one takes the Koine Greek (in which Paul originally was written) "doulos" or the Hebrew "ebed", the word does not translate either to "slave", at least in the contemporarily understood sense of that word, nor to "servant", a word no less remote from an accurate translation, but more correctly to one who has been taken captive and sold for a price into bondservice to another, or one who has sold that oneself for a price into bondservice to another. The concept is quite distinct from one who is "free" or "unbound", clearly connotating a condition or state of being most closely approximating "chattel", which specific word would be in fact a far more accurate translation than either "slave" or "servant".

I'll reserve comment on any qualitative assessment regarding "salvation" in the Christian religionist sense; one way or the other, it is most likely one sees nothing there to question.

0 Replies

Scott777ab wrote:

EpiNirvana wrote:
As soon as i started reading this a verse came to mind.

Quote:
Romans 6:17-18
17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Quote:

We are set free from the world so we can be a slave to god. Pretty disturbing thuaght to me.

That is a complete mistranslation.

Here is the correct translation.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

It is not slave.
The word is SERVANT.
Big Difference there.

I just pulled that out of the NIV, it says slave. Obviously they mean servant but still.