Right vs. privilege

timberlandko wrote:

plainoldme wrote:
The correct word is responsible, personally responsible.

For a better fit, ry "Elitist" - trimmed with "Pollyanna".

No, you must have a seriously reversed understanding of the word elitist: only an elitist thinks his/her genes are so worthy of passing on that they have more than one child.

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real life -- Are you aware that Osama is the only the idea man?

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Epinirvana -- How silly of you. Of course, you are probably a global warming denier. You probably do not realize that the oceans are fished out. You probably have never heard of soil depreciation, nor would you acknowledge the environmental cost of a feeding 6 billion people. Finally, you do not realize how many are hungry.

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How about wars to thin out the herds? Disease?
Oh wait. Mo'Nature is already taking care of that.

People will die, we're in a period where there are too many humans doing too many short-sighted things, and yet somehow I feel confident that the earth will take care of it.

Really - if we wipe ourselves out, is that such a bad thing? It's bound to happen at some point anyways. Maybe some will continue on, in a new way, or we'll mutate or evolve. Who knows?
We proved we can thrive as a species, glutted ourselves on the earth, got rich and fat on it, had a tonne of kids, and now we have to deal with the reality that we aren't gods. Time to pay, and we don't have the cash. Smile

So we'll have to pay with our bodies.

Personally, I don't think power measures over fellow human beings will solve anything. Not even short term. That's an old solution for a new problem - I think, we need to think differently if we want to see real change.

Population is a massive problem for our species: IMO, mostly bc we are stupid oftentimes, we're constantly learning and testing, and in general have lost respect for 'nature'. Probably just another lesson our species needs to learn the hard way.

[/I]This is a gross simplication of my views. Yes, I realize they are somewhat doom-ish, but it makes sense to me. Point: we need to be fresh and soon, population is no laughing simple 'problem'.

Hey. We had a good run. :wink: "I welcome our new Ant Leaders."-the simpsons

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There's a song that deals with man ending the world and god going about, picking up the pieces and creating a new and improved world, without humans.

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flushd wrote:

Hey. We had a good run. :wink: "I welcome our new Ant Leaders."-the simpsons

We'll make great pets - Porno For Pyros

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plainoldme wrote:

There's a song that deals with man ending the world and god going about, picking up the pieces and creating a new and improved world, without humans.

That would be akin to God admitting he made a mistake - clearly christians can't/shouldn't abide population control. The fault lies with the manufacturer.

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We'll make amusing and obnoxious pets. Laughing

......

Quote:

There's a song that deals with man ending the world and god going about, picking up the pieces and creating a new and improved world, without humans.

Not trying to gain up on you, plain, 'cause I get the drift of what you saying, but...
how can man end the world? We're not all that. Sure, we can waste and destroy a whole lot but we're not yet Masters of the Universe.

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hingehead wrote:

Dark knight wrote:
Very interesting responses; thank you.

so I think that if people were free to have as much sex as they wanted without ever having to worry about having kids not only would we solve many social problems but we'd also have total control.

Who is this 'we' of which you speak DK?

"We"; as in the human race.

Clearly you don't think I'm just pointing fingers here do you?

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plainoldme wrote:

To deny the overpopulation of this planet is to support irresponsibility.

It's one thing to admit that there could be or will be a population "problem" but it's quite another to propose that one should act to solve it. Who has the right to claim to know the solution, let alone put it into practice? Only those who have the power to do so by force, as no democracy would ever limit births (and it would only work if every country on the planet was included).

The end does not justify the means. If it did, there a plenty of labs in the world capable of knocking the population down by half within a few weeks.

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Dark knight wrote:

hingehead wrote:
Dark knight wrote:
Very interesting responses; thank you.

so I think that if people were free to have as much sex as they wanted without ever having to worry about having kids not only would we solve many social problems but we'd also have total control.

Who is this 'we' of which you speak DK?

"We"; as in the human race.

Clearly you don't think I'm just pointing fingers here do you?

No, it was a serious question. How can the human race decide anything? Take 7 billion person poll on each application for birthing rights?

You may have faith in bureaucracies - I don't.

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hingehead wrote:

Dark knight wrote:
hingehead wrote:
Dark knight wrote:
Very interesting responses; thank you.

so I think that if people were free to have as much sex as they wanted without ever having to worry about having kids not only would we solve many social problems but we'd also have total control.

Who is this 'we' of which you speak DK?

"We"; as in the human race.

Clearly you don't think I'm just pointing fingers here do you?

No, it was a serious question. How can the human race decide anything? Take 7 billion person poll on each application for birthing rights?

You may have faith in bureaucracies - I don't.

Is the answer "I don't know" accepted?

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I guess. I thought you were proposing a solution to a problem you'd identified. Maybe I was taking at as more than a thought game.

Toodles.

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"Considering" fits more my thoughts; asking questions mainly.

Questions are a powerful way to get things moving.

Thank you for your participation.

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plainoldme wrote:

real life wrote:
plainoldme wrote:
I've been pilloried on these threads for stating that for the next three generations -- the modern, 33 year generation -- every woman on the planet has to be limited to one child. Period. The planet is over populated.

Just had a conversation with my daughter, who said when she came back from Morocco, she understood why there are terrorists. Extreme poverty.
An unplanned child there is, like many children in India, twisted into deformity by its mother to make it a more effective beggar.

Consider how many people in the Arab countries are under-30. It has been said that the real problem in the Middle East is too many people and too much livestock chasing too little water.

To deny the overpopulation of this planet is to support irresponsibility.

Poverty the cause of terrorism, eh?

Were you aware that Osama Bin Laden comes from an extremely wealthy family?

real life -- Are you aware that Osama is the only the idea man?

hi me,

Everything starts, or is caused by someone, with an idea. So to say Bin Laden is 'only the idea man' does not deny causality, but rather reinforces it.

You had put forth the statement that the 'why' behind terrorism was poverty.

Since, in any random group, the rich are greatly outnumbered by the poor then it seems 'obvious' to say that 'most terrorists are poor.'

But there are countries much poorer than Morocco and the Muslim countries. How come they don't produce terrorists in larger numbers than do the Muslims?

Do you really think that lack of money causes men to murder? If there were a true causal relationship, how come all poor people aren't murderers?

How come some rich people are? What's their excuse?

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Who said anything about bureaucratic control of reproduction?

Now, getting humans to act in the interest of the species is an uphill battle.
There was a recent article in Harvard Magazine on decision making that illustrates how selfish we are.

However, educating folks so that religious notions about spilling sperm and every intercourse resulting in a child would be a big step forward.

Besides, the alternatives seem to be starvation --- forgot! you can all donate to the Christian Children's Fund and encourage their parents to reproduce more -- or baby mutalation.

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Right vs. privilege

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