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Worth reading: Acts of Conscience

 
 
Reply Fri 14 Jul, 2006 01:27 pm
I usually don't post stories without comment but in this case I'm making an exception. This is a very disturbing story. It is a bit long but worth the time.


Quote:


Read the whole story: http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/2006/060706_mfe_August_06_Conscience_1.html
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 800 • Replies: 18
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jul, 2006 02:09 pm
Oof. No time to read now, but would like to do so later.

Already a lot about this from several articles in the New Yorker, this sounds like it's something else, though.
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SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jul, 2006 07:00 pm
What total BS.

Garlasco is an anti-war hack with zero credibility.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jul, 2006 07:44 pm
Hmmm.

How do you figure?

I looked up his resume:

Quote:
Before coming to HRW, Marc spent seven years in the Pentagon as a senior intelligence analyst covering Iraq. His last position there was chief of high-value targeting during the Iraq War in 2003. Marc was on the Operation Desert Fox (Iraq) Battle Damage Assessment team in 1998, led a Pentagon Battle Damage Assessment team to Kosovo in 1999, and recommended thousands of aimpoints on hundreds of targets during operations in Iraq and Serbia. He also participated in over 50 interrogations as a subject matter expert.


He might be anti this war but he doesn't sound like a hack to me.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jul, 2006 09:08 pm
<bump>

I'm going to keep bumping this up until I learn why this guy is considered a "hack" with "zero credibility" by anyone, but especially by SierraSong.

I really have not formulated an opinion on the article. I have many reasons to NOT want to believe it.

So. C'mon. Somebody give me reason to not believe it.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 07:31 am
<bump>

(...still waiting.....)
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SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 08:14 am
Garlasco publicly condemned the Marines accused of murder in Haditha, then later admitted he had "no idea of the facts" in the case. Hmmmmm. I'd say that's not so much "credible" as "incredible".

He very publicly accused Israel of slaughtering a family on a Gaza beach, then later backed off when the facts became known.

And, this is the outfit for whom he shills:


Quote:
In a study of activities between October 2000 and April 2004, HRW's reports and activities on Israel were found to be systematically and exceedingly biased. Most of the 103 reports, press releases, letters, photo essays and film festivals focus on condemning Israeli responses to terror, in comparison to only 13 that deal with Palestinian terror attacks. This record illustrates HRW's exploitation of the rhetoric of universal human rights in order to pursue political and ideological objectives in concert with international demonization of Israel.


HRW's systematic condemnations of Israeli policies erase the context of Palestinian violence, and when terrorism is mentioned, it is marginalized, and not reflected in action items. HRW also ignores systematic anti-Israel incitement to hatred and the glorification of terrorists.

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/issues/hrw.htm


He's an anti-war hack with zero credibility.

You, of course, are entitled to your own opinion - and I think we can guess what that will be. :wink:
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 08:31 am
Considering that the NGO monitor is based in Jerusalem makes me wonder just how unbiased they are but that's another discussion.

You mean to tell me that this guy expressed an opinion and then when the facts came out he admitted that he made a mistake!?

Yikes!

People who change their minds based on new information are "hacks". Right? I just want to be clear on that.

I don't know the stories that you're referring to so I'll have to check them out when I get a chance.

Do you believe he was a hack when he worked at the Pentagon or is he newly hackish?
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 08:42 am
At a time when we're under attack by barbaric religious maniacs who wish to kill as many of us as possible, and convert us by force to their religion, let's criticize only our own efforts to resist.
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SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 09:08 am
boomerang wrote:
Considering that the NGO monitor is based in Jerusalem makes me wonder just how unbiased they are but that's another discussion.

You mean to tell me that this guy expressed an opinion and then when the facts came out he admitted that he made a mistake!?

Yikes!

People who change their minds based on new information are "hacks". Right? I just want to be clear on that.

I don't know the stories that you're referring to so I'll have to check them out when I get a chance.

Do you believe he was a hack when he worked at the Pentagon or is he newly hackish?


SierraSong wrote:
You, of course, are entitled to your own opinion - and I think we can guess what that will be.


Seems I guessed right. Smile
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 09:12 am
Okay then Mr. Mystic - what is my opinion?
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SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 09:52 am
You seem to want to make excuses for Garlasco, but I've already said you're welcome to your opinion.

Actually, he made the admission of not "having the facts" about Haditha, even as he was accusing the Marines of murder.

Even after it was proved that Israel wasn't responsible for the tragedy in Gaza (and even the UN backed off), Garlasco continued to blame them.

Believe what you want. I'm done with this bullshit.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 08:28 pm
You are a seriously shitty mystic!
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 08:52 pm
Hi Boomer, This is indeed a seriously interesting story.


I have been following the torture trail re the US for some time and have been continually vilified, as has anyone else who has done so, by SierraSong/Brandon clones for raising facts as they come to light here.

It is interesting that the name calling has gone from liar and lunatic to the "why do you hate America" stuff.....


I suspect in saner times these brave men and women who are raising these uncomfortable truths will be regarded as heroes...whicc I think they are, to follow their conscience and human decency in the midst of terrifying group think.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 12:35 am
dlowan wrote:
Hi Boomer, This is indeed a seriously interesting story.


I have been following the torture trail re the US for some time and have been continually vilified, as has anyone else who has done so, by SierraSong/Brandon clones for raising facts as they come to light here.

It is interesting that the name calling has gone from liar and lunatic to the "why do you hate America" stuff.....


I suspect in saner times these brave men and women who are raising these uncomfortable truths will be regarded as heroes...whicc I think they are, to follow their conscience and human decency in the midst of terrifying group think.

You have any words of criticism for the Iraqi insurgents who kidnap civilians, use them for blackmail, and then cut their heads off; or for the Palestinian advocates who blow themselves up in marketplaces where women and children are sure to be; or for the people who flew civilian airlines into the World Trade Center? Our worst prisoner abusers look like choir boys by comparison.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 02:10 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Hi Boomer, This is indeed a seriously interesting story.


I have been following the torture trail re the US for some time and have been continually vilified, as has anyone else who has done so, by SierraSong/Brandon clones for raising facts as they come to light here.

It is interesting that the name calling has gone from liar and lunatic to the "why do you hate America" stuff.....


I suspect in saner times these brave men and women who are raising these uncomfortable truths will be regarded as heroes...whicc I think they are, to follow their conscience and human decency in the midst of terrifying group think.

You have any words of criticism for the Iraqi insurgents who kidnap civilians, use them for blackmail, and then cut their heads off; or for the Palestinian advocates who blow themselves up in marketplaces where women and children are sure to be; or for the people who flew civilian airlines into the World Trade Center? Our worst prisoner abusers look like choir boys by comparison.


Yes I do have words of condemnation for those terrorists.


Do you have any for your government's now proven illegal as well as immoral behaviour?

Oddly enough, as you people never appear capable of grasping, it is actually possible to hold more than one reality in one's mind at the same time, and to disapprove of immoral and inhumane and illegal behaviour from one side, without condoning it from the other.

However, having expeerienced your ongoing blind apologist nonsense for some years, I can only conclude you incapable of more than one simplistic, Manichean view, and consider you beyond the reach of reason and the ability to deal with any but one view.


I pity you, frankly. Especially sinceyou and your ilk have seen your carefully constructed view of reality deconstructed blow by blow, without having the intellectual honesty, or human decency, to acknowledge how wrong you have been or, apparently, to even notice.


As I said, your accusations of lying and lunacy for those who have been prepared to look beyond your government's propaganda effort have subsided to these weak squibs of "but they're bad too!", as if that was ever challenged, or relevant.

Remember, most do not share your simplistic world view or mental incapacity to manage to hold the rights and wrongs of one group in mind when considering the actions of another.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 09:00 am
I want to pull a few quotes out of the article.....

Quote:
Known as the doctrine of command responsibility and formalized by the Geneva Conventions of 1949, it is the idea that officers must shoulder the blame when they know their troops are committing war crimes and fail to take "all feasible measures" to stop them


Quote:


Quote:
But Fishback balked when Garlasco asked to talk to the soldiers in his unit. He was their superior officer and it was his duty to protect them, he said. He wasn't ready to do a taped interview yet, either. And he didn't feel comfortable talking to any more Democrats. It might come off as partisan and soldiers shouldn't get mixed up in politics. He had to make it clear that he was fighting for a principle and not a party


Quote:
If he had thought they were supposed to follow the Geneva Conventions, he said, he would have immediately stopped what was going on. That is a failure of command responsibility that he feels acutely, and he can't understand why so few officers feel the same. "It is infuriating to me that officers are not lined up to accept responsibility for what happened. It blows my mind that officers are not. It should've started with the chain of command at Abu Ghraib, and anybody else that witnessed anything that violated the Geneva Conventions or anything that could be questionable should've been standing up saying, 'This is what happened. This is why I allowed it to happen. This is my responsibility.' That's basic officership. That's what you learn at West Point."
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 10:41 am
dlowan wrote:
I suspect in saner times these brave men and women who are raising these uncomfortable truths will be regarded as heroes...whicc I think they are, to follow their conscience and human decency in the midst of terrifying group think.


This really hits the nail on the head.

I think it is interesting that there appears to have been such a breakdown in the chain of command at Abu Gharib prison and that the commanding officers really didn't step up and take responsiblity for what happened under their watch.

I also think Fishback's comment about the futility of torture in interrogations is so very important.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is how America came to this point.

And don't start screaming 9-11 at me.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 01:33 am
boomerang wrote:
dlowan wrote:
I suspect in saner times these brave men and women who are raising these uncomfortable truths will be regarded as heroes...whicc I think they are, to follow their conscience and human decency in the midst of terrifying group think.


This really hits the nail on the head.

I think it is interesting that there appears to have been such a breakdown in the chain of command at Abu Gharib prison and that the commanding officers really didn't step up and take responsiblity for what happened under their watch.

I also think Fishback's comment about the futility of torture in interrogations is so very important.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is how America came to this point.

And don't start screaming 9-11 at me.




I hope there are people like these amongst the militants in Iraq and Afghanistan etc.
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