PROPHET MOHAMMAD (PBUH)

Bartikus,

Islam is so hung up on gender roles and legislating against natural sexual instincts that Arab fire brigades have been prevented from rescuing women students because the latter were "inappropriately dressed".
What. I wonder did it say on those girls tombstones, perhaps..."We died painfully in terror in the cause of theocracy!"

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fresco wrote:

Bartikus,

Islam is so hung up on gender roles and legislating against natural sexual instincts that Arab fire brigades have been prevented from rescuing women students because the latter were "inappropriately dressed".
What. I wonder did it say on those girls tombstones, perhaps..."We died painfully in terror in the cause of theocracy!"

Do you have a link. That sounds awful.

I just meant in general terms that many of those 'freedoms' can become addictive and destroy lives in sometimes a subtle way.

Gambling is one that I have personally seen in action.

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Re: we don't

dalahow2 wrote:

fresco wrote:
dalahow2

Do you not realize that the sterotype that non-muslims have of you is of a psychologically primitive people to whom "democracy" is foreign territory ? .

so stripping naked or semi, joining group sex is "democracy" you are saying...The freedom you wish for every person in the world..hhahahaha

While it's good to talk like sensible men/women, you will see that someone arguing muslim women are praying behind men in the mosque...

Not explaining why muslim women have reserved seats infront of men in the public transport..but because it's Islam..every insane man/woman has something to say...They call it freedom..

we have our freedom......you have your freedom

Though ours is not like yours

"strippers, strip tease, group sex, incest, threesomes, gambling, prostitution and a host of other freedoms you have at your disposal.
Islam is against all these...

No wonder you want the whole world to have freedom and to join you

You see, in democracies, people are allowed the freedom of choice.

I may not agree with what every person does with said freedom. So what?
A person can be against something personally, and yet still allow others their choice.

I disagree with certain personalities raising children (and certain religious folks), yet I would defend their right to do so with my core.

...............I do not believe that you, dalahow, understand what a democracy IS......You displayed fresco's point without realizing it.

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Link to "fire news item"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm

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Thanks for the link fresco.

That's......beyond words for me right now.

We have dress codes in the U.S in various schools but.....

I wonder if Ellinas would regard this article as nothing more than propoganda.

I would feel better if it was.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE230032002?open&of=ENG-364

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Fresco,

Couldnt agree with you more on what happened to those girls. It shows how ignorant people actually are. You see they thought what they were doing was from Islam when it isnt at all. In Islam the preservation of life is of primary importance. And there are situations in which haram(unlawful) becomes halal(lawful) to do. Such instances such as the one in this case where is becomes life or death. Another example is if a muslim is starving and is close to dying and pig is the only available food, then it becomes halal(lawful) for him/her to eat it. The example with those ignorant fire fighters is really sad. The prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said the blood of a muslim is more important than the Kaaba. If the firefighters had this hadtihs(saying or doing of prophet Muhammad peace be upon him), then i think they wouldnt have hessitated to save those girls.

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the best
^ So far the most illustrative reply I have come across at able2know...

Very straight to the point and still explaining Islam.

Do we categorize it under customer care Smile

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Qkid and dalahow2,

"Religion" is a man made social control mechanism which will be selectively interpreted according to the dominant vested interest group who uses it. Your own selective interpretation may ratify your individual psychological position but this has nothing to do with the socially pernicious forces unleashed amongst groups.

BTW, I'm still awaiting the answer as to whether you have chosen to live in a democracy.

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fresco wrote-

Quote:

"Religion" is a man made social control mechanism which will be selectively interpreted according to the dominant vested interest group who uses it.

Obviously.

What would suggest replacing religion with which wouldn't suffer from the same objection?

I think your fire brigade illustration was a trifle sneaky coming from such an erudite source. One can't use incidents to generate universal principles.
One could take a car crash on the way to church to justify not attending religious ceremonies.

How can you be so certain about what "socially pernicious forces" are? Are you defining those to ratify your "individual psychological position"?

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Spendius,

The debating technique here is to use the very cues introduced from "the other side" (in this case the religious rulings on sexuality) and show how their consequences support my position on the perniciousmess of religion in general and Islam in particular). This is not "sneaky", nor is this comparable to your "car accident scenario". Islamicists claim some sort of "moral highground" in sexual relationships but the de facto subservient role of muslim women belies such a claim irrespective of selective Koranic references to the contrary.

As for "replacing religion" I would say that legislation which did not refer to "divine authority" but instead to "secular social consensus" would be a preferable but unlikely alternative given the psychological insecurity and tribalism which fuels religion for the masses.

I do not need to rationalise my position as an atheist. The historical evidence for the central role of religion in most armed conflicts is there for all to see. As Harris has said (in "The End of Faith") the advent of weapons of mass destruction if placed in the hands of religious fanatics is now a new and real danger to us all. Religious moderates have no moral authority over their hotheads and their subsequent passivity is dangerous in providing a background rationality involving "next worlds". It could be time for lethargic atheists to stand up and be counted !

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dalahow2 (et al),

I assume that your lack of response to my query as to whether you live in a "Western Democracy" indicates (a) that you do and (b) that you realize the untenability of your position in criticising its some of its "freedoms" when you have chosen to benefit from others.

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The world is almost coming to an end..

fresco wrote:

...I'm still awaiting the answer as to whether you have chosen to live in a democracy.

America has it's form of democrazy that we don't have...We have democracy....we take care of the widows, the needy, the orphans, even the way farers...no segregation....rich pray with the poor..

even our women are highly respected unlike the way Christians/jews do to their women ....Read this link

This link explains what I mean when I say christians/jews segregate their women

so on and so forth...

We muslims are Just and peaceful people..We even start our greetings with "Peace be with you,... Maybe you heard about the normal anti-Islam propaganda that talks about suicide bombings, terrorism..so on..Unless we have reached a point where our rights are played upon, we are good people.

From now on, please Just tell the US to stay away from our "Democracy"....we don't need it's double sided "Democrazy"...

better unless you want the World to come to an end..

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Thats great....those phrases of yours "your women....our women" confirms the stereotype of the muslim male as a chauvinist who thinks of women as possessions. What chance have you got of being taken seriously with such a medieval attitude ?

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fresco wrote:

Thats great....those phrases of yours "your women....our women" confirms the stereotype of the muslim male as a chauvinist who thinks of women as possessions. What chance have you got of being taken seriously with such a medieval attitude ?

Yeah we should get with the times and realize that it is wrong to treat women as possessions but perfectly fine in these enlightened times to treat men as such.

Only then can one be taken seriously.

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Re: The world is almost coming to an end..

dalahow2 wrote:

fresco wrote:

...I'm still awaiting the answer as to whether you have chosen to live in a democracy.

America has it's form of democrazy that we don't have...We have democracy....we take care of the widows, the needy, the orphans, even the way farers...no segregation....rich pray with the poor..

even our women are highly respected unlike the way Christians/jews do to their women ....Read this link

This link explains what I mean when I say christians/jews segregate their women

so on and so forth...

We muslims are Just and peaceful people..We even start our greetings with "Peace be with you,... Maybe you heard about the normal anti-Islam propaganda that talks about suicide bombings, terrorism..so on..Unless we have reached a point where our rights are played upon, we are good people.

From now on, please Just tell the US to stay away from our "Democracy"....we don't need it's double sided "Democrazy"...

better unless you want the World to come to an end..

Anyone can say "peace be with you"! Just like anyone can say "good morning".

When you say peace be with you.....do you really mean it? Or has it become a mere habit or tradition? Has it become a socially acceptable greeting and not much else? Do you say it because that is what is normally said in Islam?

If so,,,,,then what is that worth?

Unless we have reached a point where our rights are played upon, we are good people.

Return evil for evil and good for good? Do unto others as they do unto you?

As long as your treated well.....you treat others well and are good towards them?

That's what constitutes a 'good' people?

An eye for an eye right?

Who can't do that?

Such a world....... will end.

Just out of curiosity dala...where do you believe your rights come from?

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Re: The world is almost coming to an end..

Bartikus wrote:

dalahow2 wrote:
We muslims are Just and peaceful people..We even start our greetings with "Peace be with you,... Maybe you heard about the normal anti-Islam propaganda that talks about suicide bombings, terrorism..so on..Unless we have reached a point where our rights are played upon, we are good people.

Anyone can say "peace be with you"! Just like anyone can say "good morning".

When you say peace be with you.....do you really mean it? Or has it become a mere habit or tradition? Has it become a socially acceptable greeting and not much else? Do you say it because that is what is normally said in Islam?

If so,,,,,then what is that worth?

in his blog, dalahow wrote:

The Somali are a very proud group and associate Christianity with people whom they regard as inferior. There are only a few hundred Somali Christians worldwide. Somali Christians are despised.

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Blog or no blog...

mesquite wrote:

in his blog, dalahow wrote:
The Somali are a very proud group and associate Christianity with people whom they regard as inferior. There are only a few hundred Somali Christians worldwide. Somali Christians are despised.

Thanks for elaboration......The few hundreds have all defected back to Islam

Read here how they went back to defected

and

Here....You will find a reason

Very Happy

It is good you read my Blogs..

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Re: Blog or no blog...

dalahow2 wrote:

mesquite wrote:

in his blog, dalahow wrote:
The Somali are a very proud group and associate Christianity with people whom they regard as inferior. There are only a few hundred Somali Christians worldwide. Somali Christians are despised.

Thanks for elaboration......The few hundreds have all defected back to Islam

Read here how they went back to defected

and

Here....You will find a reason

It is good you read my Blogs..

Just so that we are clear, the reason for quoting your blog was to highlight the lack of sincerity in this statement.

dalahow2 wrote:

We muslims are Just and peaceful people..We even start our greetings with "Peace be with you,... Maybe you heard about the normal anti-Islam propaganda that talks about suicide bombings, terrorism..so on..Unless we have reached a point where our rights are played upon, we are good people.

Pehaps you would like to enlighten us as to why so many people from muslim dominated Somalia take refuge in non muslim Kenya?

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Re: Blog or no blog...

mesquite wrote:

Pehaps you would like to enlighten us as to why so many people from muslim dominated Somalia take refuge in non muslim Kenya?

I am sure the last time you did some Geography was 70 years ago...Inter-clan wars erupted same way War broke, albeit, same way as ....were these arab slaves....or what? and many people took refuge...

Otherwise, during the partition of Africa by the greedy europeans, we were put in Kenya, some in Ethiopia, some in Djibouti...

do you study maps anyways

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/whatson/prog_parse.cgi?FILENAME=20060727/20060727_2100_4224_38311_50

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PROPHET MOHAMMAD (PBUH)

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