Need help debating with my colleague!

Jeremiah Writes:Amos Responds:

Concerning homosexuality - you say that Islam stands for sexual indiscretion, homosexuality and orgies. Well, Jeremiah, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a Muslim homosexual, to be quite honest. I invite you - find one. On the other hand, how many Christians are there who proclaim their homosexuality in the United States? Furthermore, since you're keen at citing the Quran, why not look up all verses concerning homosexuality... How many verses call it a sin and an abomination, versus, those that say otherwise? Depending on which compendium of the Quran your looking at, I think the best ratio you'd come up with is 60:2, and even these are not explicitly endorsing homosexuality. Also, I should point out an ancient-world custom in Greece - indeed, the entire Mediterannean area - was for young men to have sexual relations with their boyhood friends. Yes, Machinist, this is stange, even revolting to us... But remember that Muhammad, in order to create cohesion among his followers, was not quick, at least initially, to throw away the custom and practices of those he converted. Later, as he completed the text of the Quran throughout his life, was critical of homosexuality ad nauseum. Why leave these countless examples out for the sake of a flawed argument?

Concerning the Quran and hadith - Remember, there are compilations of hadith and Quranic text that are made for various motives, and there are various websites which harbor motives that are less than scholarly! Instead of singling out dubious hadith based on what you read from dubious sources, why not read the whole darn apple and make your judgement after having read all the material? Why not read to acquire some background context upon which to base your understanding? Once you've accomplished this, you'll more easily differentiate between erroneous sources, and fair ones. Lastly, and most significantly, the Quran says that the Hadith are not to be trusted above the Quran, and when seeking truth on hadith, one should always filter it through a good Arabic Quran. I assure you, Machinist, you've been more than misinformed on the proper textual criticism of Islamic scripture, and I think that's symptomatic of your reading 'material'.

Concerning Polygamy - Does the Quran not say monogamy is ideal and preffered? Did the prophet Muhammad not say that one must love his wives equally and treat them equally, and since it is difficult to do this, did he not say that men should normally have a single wife? The Quran is clear on this. Read up.

Concerning sexual promiscuity - if your tribe is young, unformed, and without a home, and your numbers are low from war and strife, how will one increase these numbers while maintaining fidelity to the belief of the community? Who, if no one from the outside, will bear children to increase these numbers? Think about it. There are plenty of examples in history of this phenomenon, including many on our own continent. Scores of Native American tribes made use of this practice. If you were the spiritual leader of this particular Islamic community from which this hadith originates, and you knew your people would listen to you based on the logic of the hadith traditions, is it so unbelieveable that these scriptures would surface for the purpose of child-bearing to avoid extinction? Remember, our modern, American/Christian notions of morality were not known to the pre-modern, nomadic bedouin; you wonder why I mentioned Bernard Lewis? Because he talks about this exact topic in some detail. During the invasions of the 10th-13th centuries, quick population regeneration was often needed to avoid extinction in the wake of the Turco-Mongol invasions, especially when the Turks joined Islam, and the bedouin were fearful that Islam would no longer be an Arab faith. This practice was doubly used to maintain ethnic distinction in the wake of an influx of Turkish blood.

Conclusion - Basically, I would encourage you not to judge those from pre-modern times, without your particular conception of Christian theology and modern morality, quite so harshly. It is justified to view them within their own context. Is it so impossible that these people were genuinely in search of God? If you're condfident you can answer that in the negetive, I'd like to see you try. For the present, I'll consider your apparent bigotry as simply ignorance due to bad information. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But to call the Islamic religion worse than Hitler and his ideology? That's just over the top. Don't judge the whole tree based on the relatively small percentage of bad apples.

PS - And what's wrong with Karen Armstrong? She's a lovely woman, and a brilliant scholar. I saw her talk twice at U of R. Also, radical Muslims call her an enemy of God - Doesn't this please you?

Note: I am not a Muslim; I am a Christian, and my comments are based on my knowledge from my minor in Islamic Studies under Dr. S. Malik, and the late J. Khalid, of SUNY Brockport, and Cornell, respectively.

Please help me refute Amos' response.

Thanks!