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7/7 a year on

 
 
Reply Mon 3 Jul, 2006 03:21 pm
and now

Quote:
"There is a lot of intelligence to be investigated - some of it is very sinister. It is a very, very concerning intelligence picture."

He added that the profile of the terror suspect was changing, including "many" British people willing to mount attacks on fellow citizens.

"Another feature which is really very very concerning is the fact that so many of them are so young," he said.


from bbc
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 2,929 • Replies: 71
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jul, 2006 09:23 pm
Uh...could you elaborate on what you're on about, Steve?
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 02:55 am
Just that religious extremism and support for terrorism is increasing in Britain.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,542-2254587,00.html
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 07:38 am
this morning, Blair said to a select committee

Quote:
Mr Blair told MPs: "If we want to defeat the extremism, we have got to defeat its ideas and we have got to address the completely false sense of grievance against the West.

"In the end, government itself cannot go and root out the extremism in these communities.

"I am probably not the person to go into the Muslim community ... It's better that we mobilise the Islamic community itself to do this.

"I know everyone always wants to blame the government for everything that is happening .... but we can't defeat this extremism through whatever a government does.

"We can only defeat it if we have people in the community who are going to stand up and not merely say 'you are wrong to kill people through terrorism... you're wrong in your view of the West, the whole sense of grievance, the ideology is wrong, is profoundly wrong'."
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 07:52 am
I believe steve is talking about the terrorist bombings of London's transit system on July 7, one year ago.

Quote:
Just that religious extremism and support for terrorism is increasing in Britain.


Quote:

He added that the profile of the terror suspect was changing, including "many" British people willing to mount attacks on fellow citizens.

"Another feature which is really very very concerning is the fact that so many of them are so young," he said.


I think the same has been said about America.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 11:14 am
Not a thing has changed in the US since 9/11 nor in the UK since 7/7. Not one thing.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 04:19 pm
A few things have changed.

For 2,500 American families the sound of fireworks tonight will probably make them cry.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 06:13 pm
Touché, Boomer.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 04:02 am
Its been very interesting to re read some of the posts made exactly a year ago

see http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=55086&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Note the time of the posts. A2Kers from around the world had already worked out what had happened while Transport for London were still reporting a "power surge".

Have we been told the truth? It is categorically denied that any warnings were given. Yet on that day Benjamin Netanyahu was due to attend a meeting to promote investment in Israel at a London hotel. He never left his accommodation. Why? A selection of posts on 7/7/05 might illuminate things

From Setanta

Quote:
My ISP's Associated Press wire service story originally quoted the Israeli ambassador as saying he had been told by government that there were terrorist warnings just minutes before the blast. I just went back to copy the article, but they now have different text in place. The current article quotes Blair as saying the attack is related to the G8 summit.


From Brand X

Quote:
British police told the Israeli Embassy in London minutes before Thursday's explosions that they had received warnings of possible terror attacks in the city, a senior Israeli official said. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the nature of his position.

Israel was holding an economic conference in a hotel over the subway stop where one of the blasts occurred. Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was supposed to attend the conference, but in response to the warning, did not leave his hotel to attend the conference, government officials said.

Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said he wasn't aware of any Israeli casualties. Just before the blasts, Scotland Yard called the security officer at the Israeli Embassy and said warnings of possible attacks had been received, the official said. He did not say whether British police made any link to the economic conference.

The Israeli ambassador to London, Zvi Hefetz, said Thursday that the embassy was in a state of emergency following the explosions in London, with no one allowed entering or leaving. Danny Biran, an Israeli Foreign Ministry official, said all phone lines to the embassy were down. The ministry has set up a situation room to deal with hundreds of phone calls from concerned relatives.

Thousands of Israelis are living in London or visiting the city at this time, Biran said. Amir Gilad, a Netanyahu aide, told Israel Radio that Netanyahu's entourage was receiving updates all morning from British security officials, and ``we have also asked to change our plans.'' Netanyahu had been scheduled to stay in London until Sunday, but that could change, Gilad said.

Source


(nb when I tried the source Brand X refered to, permission was denied)

from me

Quote:
"Israeli ambassador as saying he had been told by government that there were terrorist warnings just minutes before the blast"

can you elaborate?

The Israeli ambassador to Britain in London?
told by which govt?


from Setanta

Quote:
Well, Steve, that's the problem, my ISP uses the AP service, but they update the articles regularly, and when i went back for a quote, the article had been changed. They don't archive the stuff there. I'll go to the AP site and see if i can find something.


Setanta quoting AP wire service

Quote:
This is the single statement which i read, and which i have just found at the Associated Press website:

AP-dot-org wrote:
A senior Israeli official said Scotland Yard told Israel minutes before the explosions that it had received warnings of possible terror attacks.


Sattfs quotes Fox News

Quote:


Satt fs again quotes Fox News

Quote:
.

from me quoting Brand X

Quote:
brandx quotes source

"Israel was holding an economic conference in a hotel over the subway stop where one of the blasts occurred. Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was supposed to attend the conference, but in response to the warning, did not leave his hotel to attend the conference, government officials said."

The BBC states categorically that there was no warning given.

So a simple question to mr Netanyahu. Why did you stay in your hotel this morning and not attend the conference as scheduled?

WHATS GOING ON?


this is 7/7/06 ...

Has anyone asked Mr Netanyahu this question?
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 04:55 am
steve quoted:

Quote:
Just that religious extremism and support for terrorism is increasing in Britain


Regretably, I think that statement could be made about a great many countries and regions around the world, which in no way distracts from its seriousness in Britain.

Reading the other posted quotes from the discussion a year ago, I wonder how specific the information was, to British authorities, as to where the possible terrorist activities might occur? And how much lead time there might have been?

If specific, was there enough time to close down and empty out an entire subway system? The hotel above it?

How often are threats of terrorist activities received which are never made public. The perception here is that a great many are received.

If a specific terrorist threat is received which is deemed to be credible, who are notified, and in what order? And who determines this list?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 05:10 am
There has just been 2 minutes silence.

Thanks sumac interesting post. We are at war apparantly, although it doesnt feel that way most of the time. In war innocent people get killed. People like to think of clear cut battle lines. But modern asymmetrical warfare isnt like that. Its a mess, and sometimes in furtherance of the overall objective great sacrifice has to be made.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 05:35 am
steve

It's impossible to know this. Much too much room for misinformation campaigns by all parties involved. And, of course, asking Bibi a question is quite disassociated from receiving a truthful answer.

Re Blair's comments...
Quote:
Mr Blair told MPs: "If we want to defeat the extremism, we have got to defeat its ideas and we have got to address the completely false sense of grievance against the West. .

"I know everyone always wants to blame the government for everything that is happening .... but we can't defeat this extremism through whatever a government does.

"We can only defeat it if we have people in the community who are going to stand up and not merely say 'you are wrong to kill people through terrorism... you're wrong in your view of the West, the whole sense of grievance, the ideology is wrong, is profoundly wrong'."

Note the absolutes that Blair insists apply...absolute wrong on the other side, absolute innocence on "his" side. The recent rape/murder, the revelations of Abu Ghraib, the rejection of international norms and the institutionalization of torture don't gain a foothold in Blair's rhetorical posture. One suspects that his stated goal of convincing the Muslim world regarding the West's influence on that world (benign at worst, absolutely enriching at best) and the West's faultless morality isn't likely to be achieved so long as he continues to mouth such idiocy.

Of course, he may very well be mouthing such nonsense simply as a matter of domestic "information" strategy. But how stupid is that, given that his domestic audience includes so many young Muslim British men (like the one's responsible for 7/7)?

God, this man is a disappointment. Recall that before the war with Iraq was initiated, Blair was pushing for real progress in the Israeli/Palestine matter as a fundamental step in moving to address Muslim grievance towards the West. From that rational and just position, he's since moved in the wrong direction at almost every turn.

I haven't read a single argument (at least that I can recall) from a non-aligned (ie not aligned with the American Republican party nor with Blair's remaining inner circle nor with the aggressively nationalist Israeli right and its supporters) which makes credible claim that the world is now safer than it was four years ago.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 05:57 am
On another thread, some are discussing the different public reactions after the attacks in the USA and the UK.

Interesting about the background might by as well this report in today's Guardian:
Police report: foreign policy helped make UK a target

All papers in the UK (and Europe) run stories about 7/7 today, here the frontpage of the (London) Evening Standard (early edition) ...

http://i6.tinypic.com/1z6uxsh.jpg

and the Südeutsche Zeitung's main comment ("Unworried in London")

http://i6.tinypic.com/1z6v0bb.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 06:05 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:

the Südeutsche Zeitung's main comment ("Unworried in London")


It sums up with in the last paragraph:

"Indifference in society, grudge with the minorities - such Great Britain presents itself one year after the attempted assassinations. The security agencies are almost negligently nervous, because they fear a new assassination attempt to come true again daily. This is a badly mixed ratio, if one considers that London might surely be again a target for the terrorists."
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 06:07 am
walter

The guardian piece (covering an intel document) is very good. thanks.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 06:12 am
Very much appreciate your considered view Blatham. Thanks for newpapers Walter.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 06:40 am
I find the whole thing totally perplexing. What is really going on? Is Islam at war with us? And are we therefore at war with Islam? I just don't have a clue anymore, I'm tired of trying to understand it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 06:48 am
I suppose - when looking at the seesaw changes by politicans and police that a lot are ... acting perplexed.
0 Replies
 
material girl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 07:11 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I find the whole thing totally perplexing. What is really going on? Is Islam at war with us? And are we therefore at war with Islam? I just don't have a clue anymore, I'm tired of trying to understand it.


I agree, I cant find a clear explanation of any wars/conflicts i know of.

What annoys me is that the news if waffling on about the bombers going over and over details about them.
Why not spend more time talking about the people who lost their lives!!!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 07:12 am
steve

The use of a term like "war" in this context confuses far more than it clarifies. Some other term such as, say, "cultural conflict" would probably serve us much better as it more accurately suggests not just what is going on (organizations, movements, acts) but the complexity of it.

The political leaders, particularly in the US but also in some of those countries aligned with this administration such as England, Israel and Australia) have an assortment of reasons for promotion of the "war" idea but it really doesn't apply much more than if one were to say that fundamentalist evangelicals are at 'war' with gay people. One clear advantage (or assumed advantage) is conceptual simplicity...war is easy to conceptualize because it conveys a black/white, good guy/bad guy binary framework. And, of course, such a framework also facilitates manipulation of the populaces' fears and hatreds and that makes those citizens much more manipulatable in all sorts of respects. It is far harder to get that done where you allow for complexities, ontological and moral.

No easy way out on this, particularly now.
0 Replies
 
 

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