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I have this idea about "free will"

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 11:47 am
Anger management folks will tell you that an outside force can't make you angry; you must decide to become angry in response to the force.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 12:00 pm
neologist wrote:
Anger management folks will tell you that an outside force can't make you angry; you must decide to become angry in response to the force.

New age flufsters say a lot of stupid things.
What else is new?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 12:10 pm
Doktor S wrote:
neologist wrote:
Anger management folks will tell you that an outside force can't make you angry; you must decide to become angry in response to the force.

New age flufsters say a lot of stupid things.
What else is new?


This was a rather dim-witted post. Without asserting that "the new age flufsters" are right, i'm curious to know why it is that you assert that they are wrong.
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 12:27 pm
It is my opinion that many 'experts', especially in fields(such as human behavior) that are hotly disputed , don't know their ass from a well. This is evidenced simply by the widely varying and conflicting theories in pretty much all fringe science. Anyone can write a book, and be assigned 'expert' status nowadays. These are the flufsters of which I speak

And on a more personal level, I can attest that the surge of anger I feel with pain is not a conscious decision.I do not consciously 'choose' to become angry when offended. It seems intuitively 'wrong' that anger, or any other emotion, would be a choice rather than a base reaction.

By the way, I assure you nothing you ever read from me will ever be 'dimwitted' , although possibly not always fully articulated. I don't really appreciate the cheap shot either, mr.Now take it back before I lay a curse on your entire family!
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 12:30 pm
I don't intend to "take anything back." It is dimwitted because there is a specific assertion about pesonal choice, which is very much to the point in a discussion of free will, and you have inferentially denied the assertion, but provided no basis for the denial.
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 12:45 pm
I provided basis in my previous post.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 12:52 pm
Yes, but you did not provide that basis when you made your original post, which is why i described that post as dimwitted.

As to your most recent contribution, it appears that you have missed the point about anger management. Governing one's emotional responses to the world is something which wise and effective parents inculcate in their children at an early age. If that has not been done, the purpose of anger management counseling is to lead the participants to know that they are personally responsible for governing their behavior, whatever they may allege about their emotional responses.

A very poor effort altogether.
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 01:02 pm
My issue is with the idea that emotional response(in this case anger) is mutually exclusive to conscious choice. The point is that I find that to be highly unlikely.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 01:55 pm
neologist wrote:
Anger management folks will tell you that an outside force can't make you angry; you must decide to become angry in response to the force.


I'm sure they will. In some cases that may even bear some truth. However, there are cases where you (not you specifically) become angry and do not necessarily want to, or understand why. That's where "programming" as I was talking about earlier comes in. Here's a quick example before I head out to work: I worked with a lady one time who would ask me to do things once in a while. Nothing out of the ordinary really. All things I used to do with absolutely no problem for the person I worked with before her. Yet somehow when SHE would ask me to do those things it would literally trigger a response of anger and resentment within me. I couldn't control it. I had no idea why it was happening.

So I started "soul searching" or whatever you want to call it. Trying to find out what the "real" issue was. It took about two weeks, but I finally found the source one day. The source was, as silly as this may sound, her tone voice when she would ask me. She was not too far from my mothers age, and at the time I still bore a lot of resentment towards my mother. And unbeknownst to this poor lady, when she asked me to do things she just happened to ask me in an identical voice tone that which my mother used with me as child. She came off sounding very condescending. Once I found the source of the problem I was able to deal with it and move on, and no longer respond in anger when she asked me to do something.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 03:17 pm
doc S wrote:
Quote:
And on a more personal level, I can attest that the surge of anger I feel with pain is not a conscious decision.I do not consciously 'choose' to become angry when offended. It seems intuitively 'wrong' that anger, or any other emotion, would be a choice rather than a base reaction.


Anger is indeed a choice, and what's more, it is one of the most likely choices when reason doesn't provide a coherent one.

Also, I have experienced situations where I became angry, and understood right afterwards that I had indeed made a choice to do so.

All this assuming, of course, that there is some measure of influence granted us. There is always the possibillity that the pattern of our behaviour is predetermined by the unfolding chaos, like a sort of ripple effect.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jul, 2006 08:31 pm
I can surely understand how one might rightfully experience anger over seeing a child or helpless person being abused, even over some outrageous personal injury. Is this the same thing road rage?

Don't think so. . .
0 Replies
 
Krekel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jul, 2006 07:53 am
material girl wrote:
I want to be slimer but I choose to eat the wrong things.
Why is this?


Slimer rocks!

http://www.paranormal.de/ghostbusters/_borders/slimer.gif
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jul, 2006 08:25 am
Krekel wrote:
material girl wrote:
I want to be slimer but I choose to eat the wrong things.
Why is this?


Slimer rocks!

http://www.paranormal.de/ghostbusters/_borders/slimer.gif
Bon appetit!
0 Replies
 
 

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