Science has an image problem

Im glad that you amuse you. Id hate to hear that youve fallen asleep at the keyboard, a victim of your own prolixity

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I'm afraid fm that you have used the word "prolix" as another extremely tedious assertion. I don't think it is reasonable to use such a word to describe my prose in general and it is hopeless to use it if you bear in mind the explication in my last post.

As you use it, merely as a term of abuse, with no evidence offered to sustain that usage, it would qualify, though only one word, as prolix itself.
Six letters to say nothing is definitely tediously long winded.

I'm sorry you seem to think that my amusement at my own composition is a weakness. Possibly it is due to your Puritan inheritance. And it is odd how you have never taken c.i. to task over his LOLs despite them having been coming down like snow at times. One thing you are not old boy is even handed.It was just the same with "get a room" and not being on topic. You seem to have an etiquette which varies depending on whether it is displayed by an anti-IDer or not.
But most people enjoy their own wit I have found. It seems natural. And the explanation of its usefulness I have explained. I would much rather read the works of someone who is tickled pink at the ideas he is giving words to than those who self evidently have an aggravating nerve in the vicinity of their lower colon.

I would never refer to someone else's writings as "prolix" because it implies that I have second guessed what was in his mind and I don't have enough confidence in my powers of clairvoyance to chance it but if I were ever to take such a chance I would choose those posts last night between your goodself and Setanta before much else I have read as examples.

You need to show what un-neccessary words I used in putting over the points I was making without reference to your approval of the points to show I was prolix or the reader may come to feel that what you mean by the word is anything of which you don't approve.

I thought my points were efficiently made and were thus incisive which,as you might know, is the opposite of prolix. You have used the word as a synonym of bullshit which, as we all know, again, for the umpteenth time,is anything you disagree with and it is this characteristic, which puts people off by grating on their nerves, that may well cause people to have negative feelings about science when it is a constant and seemingly irredeemable feature of a writer who goes into bat for science. Which,of course,you don't. You only go into bat for yourself.

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It's ironically hilarious to see some joker wax so prolix in denying that he is prolix . . .

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There was no intention to deny being prolix in my last post. I had obviously not been prolix in the post fm used the word about and thus any need to deny having been is ridiculous.

Prolix has nothing to do with lack of brevity.

I simply tried to explain to fm what the word he had used meant and as he has reached the stage in life he has without knowing I obviously set myself a difficult task which couldn't be accomplished in a few words without my employing assertions which I do try to avoid in order not to insult my reader's intelligence.

But it is nice to have stimulated hilarity which, not being tedious by definition, is proof of the absence of prolixity in my post.

The first publisher the Proust manuscipt was offered to turned it down because he said his customers wouldn't wish to read fifty pages describing turning over in bed. He thought Proust was prolix -the silly sod.
It cost him a fortune and he is remembered in the publishing world as one of the laughing stocks of literary history.

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spendius wrote:

Prolix has nothing to do with lack of brevity.

M-W.com Merriam-Webster OnLine: Prolix
One entry found for prolix.

Main Entry: pro·lix
Pronunciation: prO-'liks, 'prO-(")
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French prolixe, from Latin prolixus extended, from pro- forward + liquEre to be fluid -- more at LIQUID
1 : unduly prolonged or drawn out : too long
2 : marked by or using an excess of words
synonym see WORDY
- pro·lix·i·ty /prO-'lik-s&-tE/ noun
- pro·lix·ly adverb[/b]
Princeton University Wordnet: Prolix
Adjective
S: (adj) prolix (tediously prolonged or tending to speak or write at great length) "editing a prolix manuscript"; "a prolix lecturer telling you more than you want to know"[/b]
Barleby.com Roget's New Thesaurus (3rd ed, 1995): Prolix
ADJECTIVE: Using or containing an excessive number of words: diffuse, long-winded, periphrastic, pleonastic, redundant, verbose, wordy. See EXCESS, STYLE, WORDS.[/b]

'nuff said.

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timber quoted-

Quote:

"a prolix lecturer telling you more than you want to know"

That's stupid. That could include a fear of what is being told and hence is a form of censorship. A telegram could now be defined as prolix if it contained bad news.

[/quote]EXCESS, STYLE, WORDS.[/quote]

Don't just assert it. Take the offending post apart then and show me the "excess". I'm a willing learner.

{quote]'nuff said.[/quote]

Another itsy-bitsy girl's school assertion. You just can't stop yourself can you? It's like an incurable disease.

Enough will have been said when you provide the evidence which you can't. It is meaningless without that-can't you see it? Is it really beyond your understanding. I can hardly believe it coming from grown men.

You grant me permission, unless you only fight people who have their hands tied behind their back, to say your post is bullshit. Then print out the dictionary on bullshit and then say "nuff said". What a pathetic position to be in. And thinking it clever as well. Sheesh. It's infantile.

Prolix has nothing to do with lack of brevity. What is being said is what matters. And there is such a thing as style which can be complained about subjectively but the effort to find one cannot be denied unless you are arguing for grunting.

Show me where I ought to have economised in words. It should be easy enough if you are correct.

In the meantime I'm watching your team play the Italians which is quite funny really. Some of your tackles seem to make an assumption that you make your own rules up and that nobody is watching.

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spendi, I nowhere say you ought to have economised in words, I merely point out economy of words is not characteristic of the style and substance of your posts.

I submit as well your assertion that "prolix has nothing to do with brevity" stands authoritatively refuted.

I'll remark in passing I draw amusement from your resort to juvenile pejoration. I imagine (if admittedly perhaps it be uncharitable to say so, even approaching the level of your style of discourse) you're working with the best you've got.

Oh, and as for the World Cup - a matter of incalculable disinterest to me, and largely the same to much of the rest of the populace of The US - TV ratings for the event here are dismal ... to the point of jeopardizing future major network coverage of the event.

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Of course you can now say that that was crap.

Print out the dictionary on crap and top it off with "nuff said"

Then I come back with "shite" etc etc

And you come back with "drivel" and so on and so forth until we run out of words and communication, the archetypal human experience, ceases.

It's laughable. It's as if you're trying to get back to monkeydom.

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And you speak on behalf of science.

No wonder it has an image problem.

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timber wrote-

Quote:

I'll remark in passing I draw amusement from your resort to juvenile pejoration. I imagine (if admittedly perhaps it be uncharitable to say so, even approaching the level of your style of discourse) you're working with the best you've got.

Sadly I must admit it has been dawning on me. But your ladies on the word games are so sweet and witty. Did they avoid an American scientific education like Ms Monroe obviously had?

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I been fishin t'day. Looks like you boys got you a carp Cool

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farmerman wrote:

spendi is all over the decks in this . He contradicts himself among his various thread contributions so, Lets just leave him where he needs to be , kraaled.

In my area, and I do teach at various levels in college , I ve found that the great discrimenator is primarily ignorance of math. Once the kid is pissed at his or her deficiencies in math, they lose the "spirit" that first got them interested in science or engineering. Math is the universal language of the sciences and many kids come into their higher educations ill prepped. I blame a lot of this directly on the schools where so much detrital subject matter is covered and the "gut" courses like math are compart,mentalized and phase -shifted so that very small numbers of kids have been exposed to calc in HS.And many of those whove been exposed, they were taught with a method that stresses no apps. , just sheer rote . Physics is at the core of most all science and math is a mere support language of physics. ALl other sciences (those that will donate and plow new grounds) are subordinate to physics and math is the indespensible language. We need better teachesr that can

RELATE to the experience levels of students. Ive seen where , underperforming students , when put in the presence of a really great battery of teachers in math, respond by exponentially gearing up that side of their brains that process and analyze. Look how easily most kids pick up computer skills, why, cause there is some immediate application of t hese skills .
This has always been a sore under my saddle. Im usually backing up the subject material a class of kids in an introductory thermodynamics in mineralogy class and reviewing partial diff equations . I find that the kids respond with clear real world examples . I read an article bt Feynman a whole bunch of years ago and he made a comment about even the brightest students needing some coaching in specific math functions and he spent nights trying to think up new applications to which his students could relate.

In summary, I think we should have spent more time training our secondary math teachers to be more creative in their approaches.

I have examples , so Id be willing to take hits from anyone that feels differently..
Also, I have always toyed with the idea of writing a really good math book for the secondary level.

I've just started reading this thread and plan to read on, but must jump in to say yes!!! to this post of Farmerman's. Yes on all counts, including that he should write such a book.

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yitwail wrote:

fm, i have a marginally on topic question for you. have you ever watched the network show *Numbers*? my wife, and several of her friends i think, love it. the premise is a police detective who has a math wiz younger brother, who helps big brother solve baffling crimes with his math insight. the math is supposedly legit...i don't watch much TV anyhow, and this setup seems too contrived to me, but maybe it's a step in the right direction?

Yep, that sounds good to me too. As it might be a trick to keep that going for several seasons, maybe the science aspect could deal with physics and chemistry as well...

An aside - one of my best teachers was an expert on bacterial cell flagellae. He was so interested in his subject you couldn't possibly be bored in that class..

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Quote:

They tend to live in a closed off world and have difficulty relating to ordinary people who they consider a lower life form.

With all do respect. People who have no education and end up being drunkards and contributing to the scum of the earth, are lower life forms.

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Isn't that a filmy layer of extraneous material that forms on or rises to the surface of a liquid or body of water looking down on the denser sludge beneath.

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are we now voting to determine whether spendi is scum or sludge. I vote for scum

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Sludge lets out a big sigh of relief . . .

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Setanta wrote:

Sludge lets out a big sigh of relief . . .

I might point out that the down state returns are not in yet, scum's exit poll numbers look weak, and the goo-goo's have a big get out the vote campaign.

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Quote:

Scum OnlineScum Online is your source for rubbish, Satire, rubbish, a bit of humour, and more rubbish. Go get a bucket of Scum now - you need it.

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Mastic Scum will appear live at Donauinselfest in Vienna on Sunday 25.06.2006. The "Rock & More" event will take place at Planet Rock Bühne on Sunday and will start at 13h. Headliners for this evening will be Pungent Stench and Eisregen. Mastic Scum will enter stage on 14:45h. See you!

Stay in the sludge but take care it doesn't dry out because it sets like concrete. You can end up playing golf or being sardined into a 747 to help **** on the world.

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Science has an image problem

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