Guantanamo suicides confirmed

Quote:

Again, the only ones partaking of treachery are the Iraqi insurgents

Actually this statement is not true as recent stories of troops (alleged) killing innocent civilians have recently came out has shown. Also as you have appeared to agree, using cluster bombs in urban areas is a war crime and the US has done so.

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Denying is the favourite tactic of liars. Sometimes it works for hours and sometimes it works for minutes. People who can read know about the war crimes committed in Iraq.
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The few dozen beheadings that occurred were heinous deeds commited by criminals. The 15000-20000 Iraqi civilians killed by the invaders can rest in peace. They died for liberty and democracy.
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Anyone who is for torture should be tortured for an hour, so he knows what it feels like.
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Sunday 13 November 2005
If it weren't tragic it would be a New Yorker cartoon. The president of the United States, in the final stop of his forlorn Latin America tour last week, told the world, "We do not torture." Even as he spoke, the administration's flagrant embrace of torture was as hard to escape as publicity for Anderson Cooper.

The vice president, not satisfied that the C.I.A. had already been implicated in four detainee deaths, was busy lobbying Congress to give the agency a green light to commit torture in the future. Dana Priest of The Washington Post, having first uncovered secret C.I.A. prisons two years ago, was uncovering new "black sites" in Eastern Europe, where ghost detainees are subjected to unknown interrogation methods redolent of the region's Stalinist past. Before heading south, Mr. Bush had been doing his own bit for torture by threatening to cast the first veto of his presidency if Congress didn't scrap a spending bill amendment, written by John McCain and passed 90 to 9 by the Senate, banning the "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment of prisoners.

So when you watch the president stand there with a straight face and say, "We do not torture" - a full year and a half after the first photos from Abu Ghraib - you have to wonder how we arrived at this ludicrous moment. The answer is not complicated. When people in power get away with telling bigger and bigger lies, they naturally think they can keep getting away with it. And for a long time, Mr. Bush and his cronies did. Not anymore.
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http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/111305Z.shtml

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I am sure the terrorists appreciate your sympathy and support detano.

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McGentrix wrote:

I am sure the terrorists appreciate your sympathy and support detano.

From America's Newspaper, The Washington Times

Quote:

U.S. treatment of detainees at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, military prison is unfair, 71 percent of U.S. citizens said in an ABC News-Washington Post poll.
While 57 percent of the 1,000 U.S. adults polled favored keeping terror suspects there, 71 percent said the inmates should either be given prisoner-of-war status or charged with a crime, the poll found. Three years ago, overall support for the prison was 65 percent.
Just 25 percent of respondents supported the Bush administration's current strategy of holding detainees indefinitely without being charged.
Those polled were almost evenly divided as to whether keeping terror suspects there had made the country safer, and more than 60 percent said setting up the prison had damaged the United States' international image.
The poll was conducted by TNS by telephone between June 22-25, and has a 3 percentage point margin of error.

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On the other hand, I don't know, I even might prefer to stay there in Camp Delta than living here in my aprtment:

Quote:

"I've heard some Europeans come there (to Guantanamo) and say the conditions are better here than the conditions in their own country," Gonzales said. "That's not to say this is something we want to continue."

Source

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After I wrote:
Terrorists who are proven to be guilty before a court, should be punished. If necessary by firing squads.
The few dozen beheadings that occurred were heinous deeds commited by criminals.
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McGentrix wrote:
I am sure the terrorists appreciate your sympathy and support detano.
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What kind of a sick statement is that? Care to explain?
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Btw, do you support US torturers?

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One of the worst monsters the Nazis produced was Klaus Barbie, the 'Butcher of Lyon'.
In 1945 he was not executed but protected by British intelligence and the CIA. Why am I not surprised?
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From 1945 to 1955, he was protected and employed by British, and then American, intelligence agents, who used his counter-insurgency skills to suppress the leftist resistance to the American and British occupations in Germany, France, Greece, and Italy.
In 1955, after the Americans and British were no longer in need of his services, Barbie, together with his wife and children, moved with American help to Bolivia. He lived in La Paz, Bolivia under the alias Klaus Altmann, where he became a drug lord and narcotrafficker. With Italian terrorist Stefano Delle Chiaie, he took part in the 'Cocaine Coup' of Luis García Meza Tejada, when a notoriously corrupt military regime forced its way to power in Bolivia in 1980.
He was identified in Bolivia as early as 1971 by the Klarsfelds (Nazi hunters), but it was only on January 19, 1983, that a new moderate government arrested and deported him to France.
On July 4, 1987, Barbie was sentenced to life imprisonment for crimes against humanity, and died in prison of cancer four years later at the age of 77.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Barbie

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Do Pachelbel. Detano and Revel have access to newspapers? If they have and read more than the comics, they would discover that the case of the rights of the Gitmo prisoners is being heard in the USSC NOW. Because we are a nation of laws and do not believe that we take care of our prisoners like the fanatic Islamo-fascists who solve the problem by cutting off heads, Pachelbel, Detano, and Revel will just have to wait until the court rules.

Pachelbel, Detano and Revel may be surprised when they discover that the USSC will declare Gitmo should be closed.

What will Pachelbel, Detano and Revel say then?

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revel wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Again, the only ones partaking of treachery are the Iraqi insurgents

Actually this statement is not true as recent stories of troops (alleged) killing innocent civilians have recently came out has shown.

Treachery is killing or capturing an enemy soldier while disguised as a non-combatant. I know of no reports that indicate our soldiers have done such a thing.

revel wrote:

Also as you have appeared to agree, using cluster bombs in urban areas is a war crime and the US has done so.

Well, it was cluster munitions, not cluster bombs.

These launchers (LINK) launched these rockets (LINK) containing these submunitions (LINK) into Iraqi urban areas.

But yes it was a war crime and yes we did it.

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BernardR wrote:

Do Pachelbel. Detano and Revel have access to newspapers? If they have and read more than the comics, they would discover that the case of the rights of the Gitmo prisoners is being heard in the USSC NOW. Because we are a nation of laws and do not believe that we take care of our prisoners like the fanatic Islamo-fascists who solve the problem by cutting off heads, Pachelbel, Detano, and Revel will just have to wait until the court rules.

Pachelbel, Detano and Revel may be surprised when they discover that the USSC will declare Gitmo should be closed.

What will Pachelbel, Detano and Revel say then?

Can't speak for Detano and Revel. Maybe the USSC will take the Constitution seriously - who knows? It won't bring back the innocent people who died in those torture camps. Don't you read? Associated Press report said '70-90% of detainees were innocent'. Look back through a few posts for the original short story if you care.

The 'fanatic Islamo-fascists' can be likened to the neo-con fanatic Christian fundamentalist fascists who are running the Adm. and blow up innocent people -no difference.

Here's a quote I got from my comic books - "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag carrying the Cross". Sinclair Lewis.

You don't spread democracy through the barrel of a gun.

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detano inipo wrote:

Denying is the favourite tactic of liars.

No, liars like to make false accusations as well.

Take that article you posted earlier. There were enough false accusations in it to make Goebbels proud.

detano inipo wrote:

"black sites" in Eastern Europe, where ghost detainees are subjected to unknown interrogation methods redolent of the region's Stalinist past.

Hardly unknown, and far from what Stalin did.

[list][quote][URL=http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1322866]http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1322866[/URL] 3. [b]The Belly Slap[/b]: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage. 4. [b]Long Time Standing[/b]: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions. 5. [b]The Cold Cell[/b]: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees (10 degrees Celsius). Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water. 6. [b]Water Boarding[/b]: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt. According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess.[/quote][/list]

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BernardR wrote:

Pachelbel, Detano and Revel may be surprised when they discover that the USSC will declare Gitmo should be closed.

What makes you think that the Supreme Court is ruling over whether Guantanamo can stay open?

Do they even have the right to make such a ruling?

The ruling, as I understand it, is only over trial standards for the war crimes tribunals.

The ruling is due sometime this week, I believe. It might even come down this morning.

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pachelbel wrote:

BernardR wrote:
Do Pachelbel. Detano and Revel have access to newspapers? If they have and read more than the comics, they would discover that the case of the rights of the Gitmo prisoners is being heard in the USSC NOW. Because we are a nation of laws and do not believe that we take care of our prisoners like the fanatic Islamo-fascists who solve the problem by cutting off heads, Pachelbel, Detano, and Revel will just have to wait until the court rules.

Pachelbel, Detano and Revel may be surprised when they discover that the USSC will declare Gitmo should be closed.

What will Pachelbel, Detano and Revel say then?

Can't speak for Detano and Revel. Maybe the USSC will take the Constitution seriously - who knows? It won't bring back the innocent people who died in those torture camps. Don't you read? Associated Press report said '70-90% of detainees were innocent'. Look back through a few posts for the original short story if you care.

The 'fanatic Islamo-fascists' can be likened to the neo-con fanatic Christian fundamentalist fascists who are running the Adm. and blow up innocent people -no difference.

Here's a quote I got from my comic books - "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag carrying the Cross". Sinclair Lewis.

You don't spread democracy through the barrel of a gun.

What horseshit. Did you go to liberalsRus.com to gather those talking points?

I can't believe that there are actually people in the world that actually believe this crapola.

Quote:

It won't bring back the innocent people who died in those torture camps. "

You should slap yourself and try to wake up.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

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3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.

4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.

5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees (10 degrees Celsius). Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.

6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess.
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I do not see any difference between these methods and Gestapo methods. Both are inhuman and criminal. It is astonishing that anyone would support these crimes against humanity.

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detano inipo wrote:

I do not see any difference between these methods and Gestapo methods. Both are inhuman and criminal. It is astonishing that anyone would support these crimes against humanity.

Of course you don't see any difference. The Gestapo used many of the same techniques. The difference however lies in the fact that the Gestapo didn't stop at the techniques described above. They went far beyond those, but don't let the details bother you.

Your use of "crimes against humanity" reminds me of the boy who cried wolf.

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3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.

4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.

5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees (10 degrees Celsius). Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.

6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.
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McGentrix, is it OK, in your opinion, that the CIA uses these four techniques of torture? Please tell me, yes or no.

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They are not techniques of "torture". They are interrogation techniques of last resort. I do not condone these as I believe there are far better techniques than these that have been proven more effective. As the article states

Do you condone the interrogation of prisoners at all? How would you get Khalid Shiek Mohammed to give vital information he had? Make him eat at Denny's?

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McGentrix wrote:

They are interrogation techniques of last resort.

That's what every torture could be named.

McGentrix wrote:

They are not techniques of "torture".

So you agree that such can be done to US-citizens as well?

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
They are interrogation techniques of last resort.

That's what every torture could be named.

McGentrix wrote:
They are not techniques of "torture".

So you agree that such can be done to US-citizens as well?

Read what I wrote and stop trying to be so obstinate.

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Do you really think I can quote you without reading?

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Guantanamo suicides confirmed

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