Good bye big fish?

Average size of a salmon in parts of the Puget Sound has dropped as much as 50% in the past 80 years (if the records from the 1920s can be trusted). Not a large predator, though, and the causes might be different: miscegenation of the wild populations with escapees from the aquafarms that dot the area.

A lot of salmon are fished. Maybe the same principal is at work. I wonder if the lesser fish - the prey fish - will get larger and more plentiful?

There are a lot of other factors that mess with freshwater fish and fish that move between fresh and salt water. We tend to damn up their rivers, dump pollutants into them and drain water for irrigation and things. That has an enormous impact on these fish and the average sizes that they attain. Wasn't Puget Sound the place where seals had taken over a few years back and pretty much wiped out the salmon run?

I don't think the open water fish like tuna, sharks etc. have as many of those types of "other factors" to contend with. Industrial fishing is one of the few direct human impacts that is large enough to reduce their numbers so drastically.

good points fishin

Yep, 'tis true. Their own foodstocks might be an issue, as well. I know that on the eastern seaboard we've had a devastating effect on some of the fish populations at the bottom of the foodchain, both through fishing (for animal feed and products such as fish oil; there's a particular species I have in mind, but I can't remember the name of it) and as a result of agricultural pollution. I wonder how much this -- and similar effects on other coastlines -- might propagate out into the open ocean.

The coastal effect is not likely to have an impact on the open ocean. Close to land is soil and pesticide/fertilizer run-off, human pollution, and water traffic. Lobsters and bottom feeder populations are hurting here. Cod and Bbluefish are both over-fished. We have a huge ocean/bay reseve here called stellwagen bank national marine sanctuary ( http://stellwagen.nos.noaa.gov/ ) which serves as a bit of an open water park.

Out to sea, especially right here along the mid-gulf stream, there is a new (new to written history) phenomena. As the ice sheets around the Arctic melt, a cold, fresh water flow is starting to bubble out over the warm gulf stream. It's causing some problems already and will likely get much worse.

Fishin' -- There was a lot of noise about a few sea-lions in the locks of Seattle who was eating Lake Washington hatchery fish. It seemed to me that the upset was that it was in a tourist spot and handy for the newscasters to report on. Fish & Wildlife would catch the sea-lions, take them out to the open ocean and they'd practically beat them back to Seattle. Very clever. I think they ended up shooting a couple of 'em.

This winter, a group of orcas that were not part of any of the known J, K, or L pods of Puget Sound stayed around for weeks rather than the few days that the were expected to. They ate several harbor seals a day, as well as seagulls (isn't that weird?). It was said that they weren't eating any salmon though that's the main diet of the home pods.

Anyway, thought I'd clarify that... in general, when we talk about seals in Puget Sound we mean harbor seals. Sea Lions... they're a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Piffka - Interesting. I remember reading about the problem in a few of my fishing magazines because, of course, the sport fisherman in the area were in a tizzy.

I did find a NOAA fact sheet on the issue.
http://www.nwr.noaa.gov/1seals/factsheet3.htm

This is a link to an interesting website, which "is designed to enable consumers to select fish that are both healthy and likely to ensure sustainable fish populations. Varieties of seafood are ranked on the "Fish Scale" from green (abundant) to red (depleted/poorly managed). Resources include PDF files of national and regional wallet cards with the ranking, an explanation of the "Fish Scale," and FAQ. "

Seafood Lover's Guide

http://www.fao.org/fi/default_all.asp
FAO Fisheries Department...everything you need to know--- really

http://www.na.nmfs.gov/lme/text/news/news-event.htm

RESTORATION AND SUSTAINABILITY OF LARGE MARINE ECOSYSTEMS:

Countries around the world are concerned with the degraded condition of coastal ecosystems. 126 of them - in Asia, Africa, eastern Europe, and Latin America - have made ministerial-level commitments to ecosystem-based assessment and management practices in support of Chapter 17 of Agenda 21, UNCED (1992) with the initiation of LME projects and proposal preparations to improve global coastal health, reduce pollution, and restore depleted biomass yields in Africa, Asia, Europe, and Latin America.



http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/magazine/stories/mag50.htm

NOAA'S ROLE IN THE WORLD SUMMIT ON SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT


http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/16/2431.html
Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources

http://www.st.nmfs.gov/st3/swordfish.html
World Swordfish Fisheries Research Study

http://www.st.nmfs.gov/st3/fleets.html
World Fishing Fleets Study

Lots of good information. Walter -- yours was definitely the easiest to read! I was pleased to see that my two favorite fish, Alaska wild salmon and halibut are both considered "green" eating. Since I live in a fishing town where the boats mainly go to Alaska to fish, it is not considered very nice to buy farmed fish.

Fishin' - I was wrong about those fish from the Ballard Locks being hatchery-run fish... also they weren't salmon, but steelhead trout. I guess part of my confusion is that since 1998 those fish are coming from the state hatchery in Issaquah and run through L. Washington.

Lake Washington Hatchery Press Release

It is a shame that the fisheries here are so depleted. When I was a girl, my friend and I would take his little aluminum runabout into the big bay and cruise with the large schools of returning salmon. They'd jump and swim all around us; it was really a thrill... like riding a horse in a buffalo charge. What a kick to be splashed at by big excited fish! A few times they'd even jump into the boat! But within a few days of reaching fresh water their meat deteriorates... ick.

I also have a major distaste for farmed fish. I just can't get over the fact that they are fed dogfood. They taste like dogfood to me, too. The news in our paper today... the Copper River (Canada) salmon are in. It's a celebration around here when that happens. The fish are delicious, especially when fresh and caught early.

Of course, the big news that LittleK started this discussion with are the really large predatory fish, so I apologize for meandering into salmon!

Huh. One night in Santa Cruz I saw a young sea lion thrashing around at the mouth of the San Lorenzo river (which apparently, unbeknownst to me) has fish in it. At first I thought there was something wrong, but after a while I figured out what the clever little bugger was doing. If I'd known it was bad behavior I'd have gone down and told him to fish elsewhere.

But they're so cute with their little ears...

Of course they are. They're related to dogs.

I always wanted one... I wonder if THEY'd eat farmed salmon?

Hmm.. I tried farming salmon once. The dang rototillers kept sinking. Lost 3 of the darn things and finally gave up.

I tried it once. Did that thing where you use dead fish as fertilizer. My entire crop swam away...

Thanks Q!

Youre welcome k