Outline your beliefs.

Interesting point of view.

It seems to presuppose that belief has some relationship to the truth of the proposition that is being believed in. I suppose to the one that holds this belief this would be so, by definition, but belief itself - as being described and not held - has no correlation to truthfulness in any objective sense.

Saying one believes something is not mutually exclusive to saying something is 100% true, although this is true of many cases.

The distinction lies in realizing you may be wrong, which is where my distinction between opinions and beliefs comes in.

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Doktor S wrote:

Interesting point of view.

It seems to presuppose that belief has some relationship to the truth of the proposition that is being believed in. I suppose to the one that holds this belief this would be so, by definition, but belief itself - as being described and not held - has no correlation to truthfulness in any objective sense.

Saying one believes something is not mutually exclusive to saying something is 100% true, although this is true of many cases.

The distinction lies in realizing you may be wrong, which is where my distinction between opinions and beliefs comes in.

Not sure to whom this was directed...but if to me...you've got me wrong.

Re-read what I wrote.

To me...a "belief" is merely a guess about the unknown wearing a disguise.

It may be the truth...it may not be.

It is a guess (or estimate, supposition)...and it is not being acknowledged as a guess.

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56 entries found for belief.
Main Entry: belief
Part of Speech: noun 1
Definition: faith
Synonyms: acceptance, admission, assent, assumption, assurance, avowal, axiom, certainty, conclusion, confidence, conjecture, conviction, credence, credit, deduction, divination, expectation, faith, fancy, feeling, guess, hope, hypothesis, idea, impression, intuition, judgment, knowledge, mind, mindset, notion, opinion, persuasion, position, postulation, presumption, presupposition, profession, reliance, supposition, surmise, suspicion, theorem, theory, thesis, thinking, trust, understanding, vie
More from the source: Thesaurus.Com

So I guess my faith is an opinion substantiated by evidence.

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Doktor S wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I do not do "beliefs" at all.

Aha!
Glad someone touched on this, I completely agree, and my reasoning is thus:
In my observations, a belief, once held, will generally be defended. Even in the face of newer, better, more productive and pragmatic information.
For this reason, I see beliefs as pockets of intellectual and sometimes functional stagnation. I prefer opinions, as opinions can be more easily changed.
Basically a distinction of semantics, but one I enjoy.

I do still use the word 'beliefs' with regards to my varying opinions for reasons of clear communication, however. If I use the term 'opinions', I am generally left having to explain why;which I find counterproductive to discussion.

I touched on that in the first page of this thread. So I hereby plant my flag! ha ha

Seriously, though, beliefs, by definition, should be temporary. Otherwise, they will close the door of your open mind.

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It is my belief that humans arbitrarily invented the notion of gods, for multitudes of reasons. I see no reason to put any stock at all in it. I believe that agnostics are so either because they fear upsetting other people or else they really are on the side of the deists, but haven't admitted it. I will always be a hard core atheist.

As has already been stated at least once, humans are animals. We carry vestiages of the past in our beliefs and behavior. For all our mental strides we are not well civilized. At any breakdown, war ensues, looting becomes acceptable, corporate banditry becomes the norm, a Reign of Terror prevails, etc. I am politically a liberal, because I want so badly for humans to civilize themselves and stop hurting one another. In my short lifetime, I have seen my countrymen slide down a slope, and I have less and less faith in us.

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So true, Edgar, so true.

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J_B wrote:

Chai Tea wrote:
I'm not going to cop out and just say "what wolf said" but, many of his statements are in alignment with mine. Perhaps I'll post more later...

Good topic dok.

I'm very interested in what some others have to say.

I'll cop out to wolf.

mmmph....looking at at wolfs post, yes I still agree, however, an amendment....I don't really care if the name is God, FSM, but I personally do believe there is something....a spark...I call creator....

not the adam and eve creator, but, an initiator.

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"Do we need God or does God need us?"

Consider the possibility that:

1. There is a God!

2. That this God Inspired/Created the Reality that allows for the existence of the universe(s), and the relevant "laws" necessary thereto.

3. That this God Inspired/Caused the individual Spirits that exist and that those Spirits continue the effects of Creation just as a child continues to create after its parents have created it.

4. That the Reality of existence is really in a non-physical realm.

5. That the Spirits, while in the non-physical realm, devised/caused the existence of physical reality to come about and caused it to be advanced through the principles of evolution (simply a tool). And that evolution governs the progress of both animate and inanimate things.

6. That the Spirits Created the ability for themselves to "descend" into their physical creation from the non-physical realm (Incarnation and Reincarnation).

7. That Spirits, while in the non-physical realm, are able to know the problems, hurdles and potential outcomes that are going to befall the particular entity that they are going to inhabit, prior to inhabiting it, yet choose to inhabit anyway because of their own "growth" desires/needs.

8. That the events of the physical world (death, pain, suffering and "evil") are not significant to the Reality, which is the non-physical realm, wherein our Spirit's true existence is, and therefore requires no intervention by God.

9. Spirits in the Non-physical realm may, at times, offer suggestive guidance to entities in the physical realm in order to assist them along their chosen path or purpose but such guidance is usually through inspiration (hunches) and dreams.

10. That the purpose of it all is for the experience of God and that eventually all Spirits will gravitate back into the Oneness of God.

God needs us but not as creatures of worship! God needs us because we, in returning to the Oneness of God, make God Whole.

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edgarblythe wrote:

It is my belief that humans arbitrarily invented the notion of gods, for multitudes of reasons. I see no reason to put any stock at all in it. I believe that agnostics are so either because they fear upsetting other people or else they really are on the side of the deists, but haven't admitted it. I will always be a hard core atheist.

That is because you cannot admit that your guess that there are no gods is nothing but a guess.

An agnostic is not an agnostic because of fear...but because of truth.

We do not know if there are gods or if there are no gods. Theists make wild guesses that there are gods....and pretend that their guess represents something beautiful. Atheists guess there are no gods...and pretend their guess represents something beautiful.

Both are full of shyt...and both should learn to have the courage to simply acknowledge that they do not know.

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EmilyGreen wrote:

So true, Edgar, so true.

Bunk!

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We have been over this barren ground countless times, Frank. I don't guess that what someone has made up out of thin air is fantasy. I know without a hint of doubt. I know that if somebody says, arbitrarily, the brownies make shoes by night, they are not right in the head in some way. I don't intend to argue the point over and over with someone whose sole argument is, nobody knows. That's the bunk. Those who don't know are self deluded.

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edgarblythe wrote:

We have been over this barren ground countless times, Frank. I don't guess that what someone has made up out of thin air is fantasy. I know without a hint of doubt. I know that if somebody says, arbitrarily, the brownies make shoes by night, they are not right in the head in some way. I don't intend to argue the point over and over with someone whose sole argument is, nobody knows. That's the bunk. Those who don't know are self deluded.

Blow it out your ass, Edgar.

All evidence indicates that you don't have any more knowledge about the reality of existence than the theists...and your silly guesses about that reality have no more validity than those made by the theists.

But I am beginning to doubt you will ever develop the honesty and integrity to acknowledge that.

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That is where you make your biggest mistake, Frank. You confuse real honesty and integrity with swishing lances at mythic windmills.

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edgarblythe wrote:

We have been over this barren ground countless times, Frank. I don't guess that what someone has made up out of thin air is fantasy. I know without a hint of doubt. I know that if somebody says, arbitrarily, the brownies make shoes by night, they are not right in the head in some way. I don't intend to argue the point over and over with someone whose sole argument is, nobody knows. That's the bunk. Those who don't know are self deluded.

And those who think they know because of they just know without a hint of doubt are equally self deluded. I find myself agreeing with Frank for maybe the second or third time in the past year.

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Simple outline-

Im the resident witch.

nuff said.

as you were..

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I believe Martians created Green Jell-O and the only way it can be improved upon is to substitute Ginger Ale for water (but that's the path to heresy)

Humors aside, my belief is that man has the potential (either directly or indirectly) to become or create that which could be considered godlike by today's standards as per Clarke's three laws

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Beyond my belief in man's potential, the precepts underpinning the word belief in the context of this thread are rife with hubris and I don't fall into that trap, if at all avoidable.

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Adendum to my stated beliefs: Intrepid and Frank are poopy heads.

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edgarblythe wrote:

Adendum to my stated beliefs: Intrepid and Frank are poopy heads.

We finally agree

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Hi intrepid. I see you've found my thread.
Step up to the plate as per the thread topic?

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Intrepid wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:
Adendum to my stated beliefs: Intrepid and Frank are poopy heads.

We finally agree

Finally...we all three agree on something.

Hummm...miracles do happen.

Twisted Evil

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