Best American Fiction of the Last 25 Years?

D'artagnan wrote:

Amigo wrote:
So who is Mr.R?

Full name = BernardR. He likes to use the honorific when addressing others, so I thought I'd return the favor...

Could the name really be R. Bernard? Cool

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plainoldme wrote:

Massachusetts, a state whose SAT scores are higher than the national average.

Could that be the result of parents with $$ and many, many SAT prep courses?

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I'm listening to "Beloved" on my morning runs. It is being read by the author which brings another dimension to the language. Thus far it has been a superb experience.

I'll let you know in approx. eleven hours of slogging around Central Park.

Joe(also listening to Emperors and Idiots on the subway)Nation

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Isn't that dangerous? What if an attacker sneaks up behind you and slugs your brains out, 'cause you couldn't hear him/her? Sad

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Hemingway commited suicide for good reason. I think he probably did good work for the Toronto Star and his Nick Adams stories aren't all bad.

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I am very much afraid- Mr. Dyslexia that you missed some MINOR items concerning Hemingway. You have a perfect right to dislike him and/or his writing. Nonetheless, he won the Pulitzer Prize for his novel-"The Old Man and the Sea in 1953 and was awarded the NOBEL PRIZE for Literature in 1954.

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BernardR wrote:

I am very much afraid- Mr. Dyslexia that you missed some MINOR items concerning Hemingway. You have a perfect right to dislike him and/or his writing. Nonetheless, he won the Pulitzer Prize for his novel-"The Old Man and the Sea in 1953 and was awarded the NOBEL PRIZE for Literature in 1954.

Yes of course gatos, on the other hand I have good taste which is something you apparently lack.

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I amhappy you have good taste, Mr. Dyslexia. Perhaps you can help those of us who do not have "good taste". Just how did you acquire your "good taste"? Don't be afraid to share your good fortune with us.

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BernardR wrote:

I amhappy you have good taste, Mr. Dyslexia. Perhaps you can help those of us who do not have "good taste". Just how did you acquire your "good taste"? Don't be afraid to share your good fortune with us.

I was not educated in the US of A and that gave me a head start. BTW good taste is timeless, try Timex.

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I like some Hemingway, despite Assygrotto's recommendations.

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Amigo wrote:

So who is Mr.R?

So who is R? He's not hereafter,
Present mirth hath present laughter :
Names to come are still unsure.
In delay there lies no plenty,
Then come and tease him, ten, or twenty!
R's a stuff will not endure.

In other words, R is a person who has been here under various guises....always recognizable by his bile, his far right obsessions, his weird affected persona, his would be patronizing tone and his tendency to spout nonsense.

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I am glad you are not doing Ad Hominem arguments, Dlowan. I am very much afraid that you will just have to scroll past my posts.

In the meantime, I will keep on pointing out that the material that you speak of as Literature is materially inferior to true literature--The Great Literature of the Ages.

Toni Morrison would not make a pimple on the large corpus of the Illiad and you know it!!!!!!

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I feel sorry for you, Dlowan since you have essentially been soundly defeated in this argument. How do I know?

When people lose their cool, as you have--when the stop using their reason as you have and descend to what is explicitly banned by the TOS and indulge in puerile namecalling--"Assygrotto" as you wrote, they have admitted defeat.

You have some smarts, Ms. Dlowan. Why don't you try to debate as they would in a real debate?

In a real debate, the judges would smack you down pointwise for such gratuitious comments as the one above.

Try to behave in a more mature fashion. I am sure that many will appreciate it!!!

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BernardR wrote:

I feel sorry for you, Dlowan since you have essentially been soundly defeated in this argument. How do I know?

When people lose their cool, as you have--when the stop using their reason as you have and descend to what is explicitly banned by the TOS and indulge in puerile namecalling--"Assygrotto" as you wrote, they have admitted defeat.

You have some smarts, Ms. Dlowan. Why don't you try to debate as they would in a real debate?

In a real debate, the judges would smack you down pointwise for such gratuitious comments as the one above.

Try to behave in a more mature fashion. I am sure that many will appreciate it!!!

I am perfectly cool, you are a fun target.

What argument have you made, by the way? You have ranted and frothed at the mouth in a general way about literature and feminism, but, other than the polemical rant re feminism, what do you not like about Beloved?

Why not actually join in a normal discussion?

Can you give a reasoned analysis of your objections to the book?

Is it the prose you do not like? Why? Can you give some examples of where you consider the writing inferior? Is it the themes? Er.....one assumes you HAVE read the book, or have you just judged it via your prejudices? ? If (as I rather suspect) you have not read it, why not do so and then contribute intelligently in a normal manner?

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How about "One Hundred Years of Solitude" by Gabriel Garcia Marquez

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You want an argument? Ms. Dlowan, I will give you my argument.

Beloved, which I did read, is a tendentious piece of garbage which plays the race card over and over and over. It is a piece of fiction which purports to tell the truth but in reality is harshly skewed to present all Negroes as virtuous and all Whites as devils.

At the very beginning, Toni Morrison tells us that sixty million Negroes were killed during the slave trade to the New World. Sixty Million!!! She presents no evidence for this statement and then proceeds to go on to tell the reader that Slavery was the very worst thing that could happen to any person at any time and that the white devils were responsible for it.

Anyone who knows anything about the History of Slavery knows that this is a vicious lie.

The Native Indians of our country practiced slavery on each other.

In several tribes of the American northwest, slaves comprised between 10 and 15 percent of the population.

Slavery was WIDESPREAD in Africa-=-Ghana, Songhai, and Mali all relied on slave labor.

Tribal chiefs in Africa sold millions of blacks to Euopean working through Arab middlemen.

Europeans did not invade Africa to chase down and capture slaves. Many slaves purchased by Europeans were already slaves.

Indian Tribes all owned black slaves.

3,500 American Black slaveholders owned 10,000 black slaves.

What the race carder-Toni Morrison will not hint to in her book, since she is so eager to demonize the "white Devils" is that the emerging CONSENSUS OF SCHOLARS WRITING ON SLAVERY HAVE FOUND THAT
SLAVES WERE

IN MATERIAL TERMS OF DIET, HEALTH AND SHELTER, SLIGHTLY BETTER OFF THAN NORTHERN INDUSTRIAL WORKERS.

better off-----

AND THE SLAVES WERE FAR BETTER OFF THAN WORKERS IN MUCH OF EUROPE.

Eugene Genovese, a Marxist scholar, who wrote one of the Definitive Histories of Slavery concludes, in his widely accepted masterpiece--ROLL, JORDAN, ROLL--that THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION PROBABLY DID NOT LIVE AND EAT AS WELL AS THE SLAVES DID IN THE SOUTH.

Now this is documented Historical FACT, but Toni Morrison race carded her way to Politically Correct Status and wrote a dishonest and lying book about Negroes.

That is the argument, Dlowan!!!!!!!!!

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BernardR wrote:

You want an argument? Ms. Dlowan, I will give you my argument.

Beloved, which I did read, is a tendentious piece of garbage which plays the race card over and over and over. It is a piece of fiction which purports to tell the truth but in reality is harshly skewed to present all Negroes as virtuous and all Whites as devils.

At the very beginning, Toni Morrison tells us that sixty million Negroes were killed during the slave trade to the New World. Sixty Million!!! She presents no evidence for this statement and then proceeds to go on to tell the reader that Slavery was the very worst thing that could happen to any person at any time and that the white devils were responsible for it.

Anyone who knows anything about the History of Slavery knows that this is a vicious lie.

The Native Indians of our country practiced slavery on each other.

In several tribes of the American northwest, slaves comprised between 10 and 15 percent of the population.

Slavery was WIDESPREAD in Africa-=-Ghana, Songhai, and Mali all relied on slave labor.

Tribal chiefs in Africa sold millions of blacks to Euopean working through Arab middlemen.

Europeans did not invade Africa to chase down and capture slaves. Many slaves purchased by Europeans were already slaves.

Indian Tribes all owned black slaves.

3,500 American Black slaveholders owned 10,000 black slaves.

What the race carder-Toni Morrison will not hint to in her book, since she is so eager to demonize the "white Devils" is that the emerging CONSENSUS OF SCHOLARS WRITING ON SLAVERY HAVE FOUND THAT
SLAVES WERE

IN MATERIAL TERMS OF DIET, HEALTH AND SHELTER, SLIGHTLY BETTER OFF THAN NORTHERN INDUSTRIAL WORKERS.

better off-----

AND THE SLAVES WERE FAR BETTER OFF THAN WORKERS IN MUCH OF EUROPE.

Eugene Genovese, a Marxist scholar, who wrote one of the Definitive Histories of Slavery concludes, in his widely accepted masterpiece--ROLL, JORDAN, ROLL--that THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION PROBABLY DID NOT LIVE AND EAT AS WELL AS THE SLAVES DID IN THE SOUTH.

Now this is documented Historical FACT, but Toni Morrison race carded her way to Politically Correct Status and wrote a dishonest and lying book about Negroes.

That is the argument, Dlowan!!!!!!!!!

Yes, but what do you think of the actual writing, given that you do not believe that polemics are the place of literature?

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Excellent question.

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Miller wrote:

plainoldme wrote:
Massachusetts, a state whose SAT scores are higher than the national average.

Could that be the result of parents with $$ and many, many SAT prep courses?

Anyone who uses an SAT prep is an idiot. There are swindlers all around us and the biggest of all use the SAT prep.

In the town where I live, two of t he biggest employers are Harvard and MIT, so heredity plays a role.

Also, schools today teach more in certain fields than schools did when I was in school, and those schools were better than the ones my former husband attended.

Those educated parents demand high standards.

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Miller wrote:

plainoldme wrote:
Massachusetts, a state whose SAT scores are higher than the national average.

Could that be the result of parents with $$ and many, many SAT prep courses?

Anyone who uses an SAT prep is an idiot. There are swindlers all around us and the biggest of all are the SAT prep courses and the educational advisors that supposedly help kids get into prep schools and unis.

In the town where I live, two of t he biggest employers are Harvard and MIT, so heredity plays a role.

Also, schools today teach more in certain fields than schools did when I was in school, and those schools were better than the ones my former husband attended.

Those educated parents demand high standards.

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Best American Fiction of the Last 25 Years?

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