Roadmap to ....Peace in the Middle East?

While I've always been able to agree with steissd on Israeli/ Palestinian issues, this issue of territorial integrity needs to be dealt with. There is just no way the word contiguous can be applied to a series of islands connected only by air routes. For those Palestianians truely desiring a peaceful accommodation Israel, this may become as big an issue as security from attack is to Israel.

The seeds of territorial incontiguity of both Palestine and Israel appeared in the very UN map of division of British Palestine. The compromise solution is possible for Palestinians by means of overhead road. connecting Gaza and West Bank. Any other solution will make Israel incontiguous.
By the way, when I speak about territorial contiguity of Palestine, I mean withdrawal of settlements.

I didn't know that, steissd. That would also be unacceptable.

Sorry, I misunderstood, what is unacceptable: the overhead road connecting Gaza and West Bank, or fragmentation of Israel?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/934179/posts

JERUSALEM - Hamas and other militant groups are on the verge of agreeing to halt attacks on Israelis, Palestinian officials said Monday, while Israel warned it may not accept what it considers a tactical cease-fire meant to give the militias time to regroup for more violence.

A U.S.-backed peace plan, the "road map" to Palestinian statehood by 2005, has been hung up over the two sides' inability to end 33 months of fighting, with each saying, in effect, that the other must go first.


An agreement by Palestinian militias to suspend their armed uprising could be a major breakthrough and a way out. However, Israeli officials remained deeply suspicious, saying a truce is just a ploy by militants to win time to prepare for more shootings and bombings.


The terms of the emerging deal between Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas and the militias were not clear. One Palestinian mediator said the truce will be open-ended and apply not only to Israel, but also the West Bank and Gaza Strip (news - web sites) ?- a key condition for Israel.


Palestinian officials, including Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath and Cabinet Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo, were optimistic, saying they expect a positive response by the militias. A Hamas leader, Mahmoud Zahar, said the announcement would not come Monday ?- contradicting assessments by Palestinian officials ?- but said that "the decision will hopefully come very soon."


Hamas has repeatedly walked away from the Egyptian-brokered truce efforts, but the Islamic militant group is feeling the squeeze after the Iraq (news - web sites) war. Washington has urged Arab nations to stop funding Hamas, Syria closed the offices of Palestinian militant groups and Israel threatened to assassinate Hamas leaders. Last week, Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) called Hamas an "enemy of peace."


A Palestinian uprising leader, Marwan Barghouti, has also lent his prestige to the talks, writing cease-fire proposals from his Israeli prison cell and forwarding them to Khaled Mashal, a Hamas leader based in Syria, according to a source close to the negotiations.


Barghouti's final draft was delivered to Mashal this week, and the Hamas leader has promised to give his response to the Egyptian government quickly, according to the source. The document says the militias are willing to give Abbas a chance to negotiate an agreement with Israel.


Interviewed Monday by Israel TV, Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Maher said Egypt is trying to convince the militias to "put an end to their armed resistance during a (cease-fire), during which we will work for implementation of the road map." He said there were still some problems with Hamas.


Palestinian security minister Mohammed Dahlan told Israel TV's Channel 10 that the agreement would call for a halt to attacks against Israelis in the West Bank and Gaza as well as Israel.


The involvement of Barghouti would probably mean that another militia, the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, also would honor a truce, and that could make it easier for Hamas to accept. Barghouti is on trial by Israel for alleged involvement in attacks that killed 26 Israelis.


Hamas, the largest and deadliest group, has set the tone for the other armed factions.


However, Israeli officials said a Hamas-Abbas understanding might not necessarily be acceptable to them, noting that under the peace plan, the Palestinian Authority (news - web sites) must disarm militias, not court them. At best, Israel would accept an internal Palestinian arrangement as a brief precursor to a crackdown, officials said.


Abbas has said he will not use force against the militants, for fear of civil war.


"The Palestinians must fight all the terror organizations," Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said Monday. "Their dialogue with the terror organizations is their business."


A top Israeli security official said the truce talks give Hamas too much leverage. "It's unacceptable for the Palestinian Authority, Israel and the United States to agree to a situation in which a certain Hamas leader decides when progress (on the road map) will be made," said Maj. Gen. Amos Gilad. "It's an easy solution that will cost us in blood."


A key sticking point has been Israel's refusal to date to halt targeted killings of wanted Palestinians. Israel says it reserves the right to go after "ticking bombs," but uses a broad definition that includes not only assailants about to carry out attacks, but also those who send them. Over the weekend, Israeli troops killed a Hamas leader, Abdullah Kawasme, whom Israel blames for the deaths of 52 Israelis.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, steissd. Neither would be acceptable to me, depending on which country I were living in. I was not aware of the proposed fragmentation of the proposed Palestinian region untill George mentioned it some time ago. I was also unaware that a contiguous Palestinian state would result in dividing Israel. Hope that clears up what I intended to say.

Well, what's one more insolvable problem?

The problem would be solvable if to establish Egyptian sovereignity over Gaza Strip as it was before 1967. The obstacle is as follows: Egypt is reluctant to accept .5 million Palestinians. There was a proposal of returning Gaza to Egypt in course of the 1978 Camp David peace talks, but Sadat refused to receive such a dubious gift.

You mean they can have Gaza but they've got to take the people?

Hamas has agreed to a cease fire.

There wouldn't be this mess if not for the people there who claim it as their home, right? If we could just tell them to leave we wouldn't have a problem.

Of course. Gaza would be transferred under Egyptian sovereignty with all its population.

WORLD

Hamas, Islamic Jihad agree to truce

Posted: Wednesday, June 25, 11:37am EDT

Three key Palestinian groups, including the Islamic militant groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad, agreed Wednesday to halt attacks on Israel for three months, a senior official of Yasser Arafat's Fatah faction said.
The official, Kadoura Fares, speaking on behalf of Fatah, said a formal statement about the cease-fire would be made later Wednesday. Fatah also signed the agreement.

And than what? The Hamas and Islamic Jihad will be strong enough to resume terrorism again. Unless they are disarmed and the snakes head is cutoff a truce means very little. That is why I suppose it is called a Hudna.

Foreign Worker Murdered - Terror Victim #31 Since Road Map
18:57 Jun. 30, '03 / 30 Sivan 5763


Hudna notwithstanding, Palestinian terrorists perpetrated yet another murderous shooting attack this afternoon, claiming the life of a foreign worker from Bulgaria. It occurred near Kalkilye, where workers were engaged in paving a bypass road. The victim was Raskov Karisto, 45. The Al Aqsa Martyrs of Fatah claimed responsibility, "in response to the hudna." The Yesha Council called upon the Prime Minister to freeze the implementation of the Road Map, saying that the terrorism of the past 24 hours proves that the hudna - a temporary ceasefire is "nothing more than another Palestinian deception."

Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee today that the hudna is a "ticking timebomb." He said that Israel is not a partner to this agreement, and "if the PA does not dismantle the terrorist organizations, there will be no progress in the peace process."

Arab affairs expert Dr. Guy Bechor of the Interdisciplinary Center in Herzliya writes in Yediot Acharonot today that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are the big winners in this process:
"Israel will not even be able to take simple preventative actions on behalf of its citizens without being portrayed as having violated the agreement. This may be good in the short run, but it's a bad scenario for the long run for the Road Map and the possible peace process. Does anyone even remember that the Road Map stipulates that the PA is supposed to dismantle the Islamic terrorist organizations?"

Bechor further wrote that just like Hizbullah in Lebanon after Operation Grapes of Wrath, it will now be Hamas that will judge whether Israel is fulfilling or violating the agreement, and Hamas will decide when and how the hudna is to end. "Israel and the PA have become hostages of Hamas," Bechor writes. "These three months in which Israel's hands will be tied will enable [Hamas] to rebuild its military infrastructures and its underground cells that were greatly damaged, and to disseminate weapons."

The U.S. is not playing dead, however. As a way of offsetting the influence of Hamas within the Palestinian Authority public, the U.S. is planning to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in the PA areas, in hospitals, roads, and humanitarian aid. U.S. National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice informed PA Finance Minister Salam Fayad and Ariel Sharon's aide Dov Weisglass of the news yesterday morning during her one-day visit to Israel. The goal is to negate the conception that only Hamas takes care of the PA public.

So, are you laying odds on what kind of accountablity is attached to all that cash, au?

roger
IMO any treaty made with the PA and it's terrorist allies might just as well be written on ice. Since I am sure it will melt away.
MY fear and unfortunately opinion is the three months will be used by the terrorists to re-arm and heal. They in turn will become stronger and Israel weaker and more prone to attack because of the withdrawal of troops from strategic areas.
I have very serious doubts regarding the motives of the Palestinians.

And the terror attacks continue, in spite of all the declarations. Today a truck driver was shot at. I believe that Palestinians can be negotiated with only after they undergo smashing defeat, like this the Nazis have undergone. Unfortunately, the international community prevents Israel from defeating them.

All experience suggest you are both right. Hope says otherwise. Since I have exactly no influence over events, I will hope.

New Mideast era remains to be seen


Not very surprisingly, the gleaming new Mideast truce successfully lasted for all of mere minutes before a band of Al Aqsa killers shot dead a Bulgarian construction worker on the West Bank.You could call that just a blip, since Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is still willing to give Palestinian leaders the benefit of the doubt. "You can't expect them to destroy terrorism in a moment," he reflected, patiently.Truce, is it? Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, the three Palestinian terrorist factions chiefly responsible for many months of brutish slaughter of Israelis, now earnestly declare their desire for harmony and goodwill. At least for a few months.They are now formal signatories to a ceasefire.All seems fine and bright. In Gaza, Israeli bulldozers chew down roadblocks and checkpoints in the wake of a good-faith military pullout. In Bethlehem, Israeli troops get ready to withdraw this week. "A new era," proclaims Ari Fleischer, spokesman for a White House that was chief broker of this summer's road map to peace.The Al Aqsa murderers, to be sure, are not part of any new era. They are loyal to Yasser Arafat's Fatah. And it is a fair guess that they are likely to prove themselves obstructionist nuisances as Arafat continues his manipulation of the peace process through acts of terror. Tellingly, it was these oft-described mainstream Fatah members who were the last to agree - even temporarily - that killing Jews is unacceptable.Meanwhile, of course, it remains to be seen how trustworthy the ever-murderous Hamas or Islamic Jihad might be. Negotiated ceasefires can be useful things, when they hold. And pointless when they do not.All of which reemphasizes the point: However persuasively Palestinian Prime Minister Abu Mazen may deal with the bloodthirsty gangs in his midst, the road map does not call for truces or ceasefires with these terrorists. It mandates their eradication. Perhaps yesterday's luckless Bulgarian was only a blip. But how many more will there be?


Editorial from NY Daily News

Defense/Security

Terrorism Under The Hudna
11:50 Jul. 01, '03 / 1 Tammuz 5763


Hudna or no, Palestinian terrorism continues.



Hudna or no, Palestinian terrorism continues. A terrorist armed with a pistol jumped out of a taxi this morning, and opened fire at IDF soldiers at a checkpoint near Tul Karem ten miles east of Netanya. The Israelis returned fire and killed him; no one else was hurt.

In Gaza, there were at least three incidents of Palestinian violence against Israelis: Arabs opened fire at two IDF outposts, and attacked an army patrol. In all three cases, no one was hurt and IDF soldiers returned fire. Israel has not made any arrests of terrorists since withdrawing from northern Gaza yesterday, although it has intelligence information that three wanted terrorists traveled from north to south on the Gaza highway within hours of its re-opening to Arab traffic yesterday.

Defense elements say that additional wanted terrorists are expected to use the highway when they see that IDF forces do not stop them, and that they will use the route to smuggle arms and weapons.

At least two soldiers who served yesterday morning at the Gush Katif junction after control was handed over to the PA recounted that almost every Arab car that passed by had a Kalachnikov rifle - which were gleefully pointed at the Israeli soldiers. The IDF orders, of course, were not to respond.

Instead of close to 60 daily intelligence warnings of possible terrorist attacks, as was the case before the hudna was announced, defense sources say that there are now "only" about 50.

Defense Minister Sha'ul Mofaz said today that if Israel sees that the Palestinians are treating the current diplomatic process only as a timeout from terror, "I assume that we will have to take action on our own. If they take it seriously, and fulfill their security responsibilities, together with our ongoing efforts - then these two elements could lead to an increase in security. I will not conceal from you that I have doubts as to whether this can work..." Speaking to the students of the pre-military yeshiva in Nokdim, east of Gush Etzion, Mofaz said that the current diplomatic process could "take years, not months."

Terrorist Organizations Using "Cease-Fire" to Best Advantage
12:02 Jul. 06, '03 / 6 Tammuz 5763


Israeli intelligence organs warn that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are utilizing the current "hudna" period to raise money and enlist members, and that within 2-3 months, they will have rebuilt their terrorist capacities.


Terrorist Organizations Using "Cease-Fire" To Best Advantage

IDF Intelligence and the General Security Service have prepared a report warning that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are utilizing the current "hudna" (cease-fire) period to raise money and enlist members, and that within 2-3 months, they will have rebuilt their terrorist capacities.

Ynet reports today, in the name of a military source, that the military achievements of last year's Operation Defensive Shield and Operation Determined Stand - the dismantling of the terrorist infrastructures and hierarchies - are gravely threatened. The source said that the terrorists will soon boast new terror cells, explosives labs, and engineers, and that they will be ready to take action at the slightest "provocation." This could mean the end of the peace negotiations, "because they will be able to perpetrate a large wave of attacks, and we will be forced to retaliate with full force."

GSS head Avi Dichter said that Israel cannot agree to a hudna of more than a month unless concrete actions are taken to disarm the terrorist organizations.

The report also bemoans the fear of "cities of refuge" - PA-controlled cities where wanted terrorists can hide from the IDF - and the fact that the PA continues not to take action against the terrorist organizations

Should this cease fire be as feared an opportunity for the terrorist organizations to regroup. When and if they start their terrorist activities IMO Israel will go after them without restraint and with no holds barred.