The Myth of Religious Persecution

Do you include the Black Muslims, led by the insane Farrakhan, among them?

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To answer your question would be to accept the premise that Farrakhan is insane. I don't appreciate people attempting to set me up. Peddle your sh!t somewhere else.

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Please forgive me. I misspoke. I will state for the record that Farrakhan is not insane. Thanks for correcting me. I think I relied on bad advice.; Someone said that anyone who calls all whites blue eyed devils must be insane. Now I know differently.

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How very puerile your sarcasm is. My remarks addressed the historical antecedants for the growth of a persecution perception among people in the Muslim world. The American Nation of Islam may well qualify as Muslim, but the United States is not a part of the Muslim world. If you wish yourself to address the issue of whether or not members of the American Nation of Islam have a persecution complex and its antecedants help yourself. Don't try to drag me into your screed, because my remarks were not referential to your particular bête-noire.

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BernardR wrote:

Do you include the Black Muslims, led by the insane Farrakhan, among them?

Firstly, we'll need more information about these Muslims led by a so-called "insane" Farrakhan. From your description, it would appear that tales of past persecution may have inspired him to undertake an opposite yet equal stance.

If what you say is true concerning Farrakhan's racist remarks, then I would say he is a racist bastard. However, your question was primed in a way that made your view seem absolute. It was very understandable for Setanta to have the reaction he did.

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I think Farrakhan does appeal to the most basic kind of self-identification with victimhood. That, along with a very polished and practiced ability to incite rage makes him someone to be reckoned with. For all the wrong reasons, I hate to say.

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I see... Interesting. I must find out more about this Farrakhan. Though not insane, I would think he is devious and rather twisted.

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snood wrote:

I think Farrakhan does appeal to the most basic kind of self-identification with victimhood. That, along with a very polished and practiced ability to incite rage makes him someone to be reckoned with. For all the wrong reasons, I hate to say.

This goes right to the heart of the matter. His message is tailored to its target audience, and on that basis can be said to be preeminently a canny message, and far from insane.

At all events, Bernard's thesis is so simplistically dull-witted that it means all racists are by definition insane. That means David Dukes and all his ilk are insane. Anyone who hates someone because their skin is white, or brown, or black or yellow is a racist by that criterion. Anyone who hates someone because they are a Jew or an Arab is insane. Given the degree of apparent racism in the world, we are awash in lunatics.

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I think we're all insane. Who in their right mind would post in these forums? Who in their right mind thought that clapping would be a good idea to show appreciation of something? Who in their right mind thought that Morris dancing would be a good idea? Who in their right mind thought that the fashion of the 1980s was cool?

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It is obvious that Setanta, for one, knows very little about Farrakhan. The Nation of Islam(Farrakhan's group) was said to have a membership of around two hundred thousand a few years ago. Furthermore, Farrakhan draws large audiences to his hate filled speeches. The crowds have ranged from fifteen to twenty-five thousand to listen to the most vile Anti-Semitic rants.

According to a poll from CNN and Time Magazine, 70 percent of American Blacks believe that Farrakhan "Says things the country should hear", more than 60% believe" he speaks the truth" and only 30% consider him a "bigot and a racist".

Muhammed(originally named Elijah Poole) set up the Nation of Islam in Chicago in the mid 1930's. Farrakhan is carrying on as his disciple. Muhammed wrote in his doctrine in "Message to the Blackman in America"----"Allah is proving to the world of black men that the white race actually does not own any part of our planet. The white race is not, and never will be, the chosen people of God. They are the chosen people of their father, Yacub, the devil"

You were saying about the paranoia of Christians, Wolf O'Donnell?

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BernardR wrote:

It is obvious that Setanta, for one, knows very little about Farrakhan. The Nation of Islam(Farrakhan's group) was said to have a membership of around two hundred thousand a few years ago. Furthermore, Farrakhan draws large audiences to his hate filled speeches. The crowds have ranged from fifteen to twenty-five thousand to listen to the most vile Anti-Semitic rants.

According to a poll from CNN and Time Magazine, 70 percent of American Blacks believe that Farrakhan "Says things the country should hear", more than 60% believe" he speaks the truth" and only 30% consider him a "bigot and a racist".

Muhammed(originally named Elijah Poole) set up the Nation of Islam in Chicago in the mid 1930's. Farrakhan is carrying on as his disciple. Muhammed wrote in his doctrine in "Message to the Blackman in America"----"Allah is proving to the world of black men that the white race actually does not own any part of our planet. The white race is not, and never will be, the chosen people of God. They are the chosen people of their father, Yacub, the devil"

You were saying about the paranoia of Christians, Wolf O'Donnell?

What exactly is your unique point? What are you saying different from Setanta? Everyone here seems in agreement that Farrakhan is not a good guy - whadya want, it in writing or something?

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BernardR wrote:

You were saying about the paranoia of Christians, Wolf O'Donnell?

No, read the post more carefully. I never said Christians. I said fundamentalist Christians and tried to make it clear I was not talking about the majority of Christians.

I also made it very clear that I was sure that other religious groups followed suit, but know virtually nothing about said religious groups.

Perhaps, it is just me, but you yourself are taking this entire post as some sort of attack against Christianity and getting all defensive. It seems as if you yourself are acting the role of the persecuted, when there is no persecution going on here. You are proving my point. Then again, I am basing all the stuff in this paragraph on that one sentence quoted above and the general tone of your other sentences.

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Wolf O'Donnell began this thread in this manner:

He wrote:
I've been noticing something as of late and that is that American Christians of the far-right persuasion tend to have some kind of persecution complex. Spreading amongst this particular group are memes, thought viruses if you will, that speak solely about how the US Majority is geared against Christianity.

It's present in Islam too, although I can see where the Muslims get the idea that they're being persecuted from. (It doesn't help that the majority of the big terrorist names are all Muslim, or maybe that's the sole reason).
end of quote

I do not agree that the Black Muslim Nation in this country should get the idea that they are being persecuted. They have no reason to think so.

However, while O'Donnell castigates Christians for their desire to continue the tradition of Christmas being celebrated around the birth of Christ, Farrakhan and his followers indulge in the same message given by the tolerant and diplomatic leader of Iran---Jews are wicked and must be eliminated.

O'Donnell would do well to study the black paranoia which far exceeds Christian paramoia.

Only a group that contains a large number of paranoids would have such a sizeable percentage agreeing that American Doctors inoculated African babies with the aids virus in Africa.

Do some research on the paranoia of the Black Muslims and thier sympathizers in the USA, Mr. O'Donnell.

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I agree that some Fundamentalist Christians act in a way that can be considered paranoic. However, as I have pointed out, so do other groups---the Black Muslims are one.

Your attempt to denigrate the Fundamentalist Christians fall short since there are many other groups whose PARANOIA is much much more apparent.

case in point- the ridiculous reaction of Muslims to the depiction of Muhammed in the Danish Newspapers.

case in point- the reaction of the Saudi and Iranian thugs who came armed to demand that the Saudi flag and the Iranian flag be removed immediately from the famous Koln Brothel-Pasha. These flags were placed by the establishment along with flags of many other nations as a celebration of the Olympics.

When you compare this "paranoia" with the "paranoia" exhibited by Fundamentalist Christians( they did not march on the exhibit bearing weapons or threaten bombings) when the famous "Piss Christ" was shown, it is clear that your message concerning Fundamentalist Paranoia is a weak one.

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BernardR wrote:

I agree that some Fundamentalist Christians act in a way that can be considered paranoic. However, as I have pointed out, so do other groups---the Black Muslims are one.

And I say once again, if you read my original post, you will find that I acknowledged the fact that within Islam there are similar groups. I failed, however, (how I managed to do that I can't quite fathom) to state that I would not go into Islam because I knew little about it and I failed to state that it applies to many other groups.

I can't quite figure out how I forgot. It was rather essential to what I wanted to convey.

Quote:

case in point- the ridiculous reaction of Muslims to the depiction of Muhammed in the Danish Newspapers.

Remember the ridiculous reaction of fundamentalist Christians to the "Life of Brian"?

Quote:

case in point- the reaction of the Saudi and Iranian thugs who came armed to demand that the Saudi flag and the Iranian flag be removed immediately from the famous Koln Brothel-Pasha. These flags were placed by the establishment along with flags of many other nations as a celebration of the Olympics.

How about the Christian Fundamentalist attempts to get the Ten Commandments housed in every single public space?

Quote:

When you compare this "paranoia" with the "paranoia" exhibited by Fundamentalist Christians( they did not march on the exhibit bearing weapons or threaten bombings) when the famous "Piss Christ" was shown, it is clear that your message concerning Fundamentalist Paranoia is a weak one.

No, they did not take to violence. Instead, they go the peaceful route through lobbying to have critics silenced. Whereas the Muslim group choose to get their way through violence, the Christian one tends to do so through politics. Both do not like it when they don't get their own way. Both are minorities. Both deserve no apologetics.

You have provided me with some evidence to help me support that there are some Muslim groups that are equally paranoid.

By providing evidence that another group is also paranoid, you do not disprove my first conjecture. You only prove that my conjecture also applies to another group.

Also, I've never heard of this Koln Brothel-Pasha and searches in Wikipedia turn up nothing. Are you sure you haven't mispelled it? What is this Brothel-Pasha you speak of?

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Koln Brothel in the news today-Wolf O'Donnell-sir.

Your contrast of the Fundamentalist "paranoia" and the Muslim "paranoia" is most revealing. You state that the Fundamentalists attempt to attain their aims through political means. Do you have a problem with this? I am sure that you are aware that political ends are ultimately subject to the wishes of the majoirty of the polity. And, of course, if those wishes would prove to be in violation with the US Constitution, they would be struck down.

I think your concern for ANYTHING that would be subject to such constraints reveals a fundamental error. Any group in the USA is entitled to utilize legitimate political devices to promote their ends.

It is apparent you have a problem with this?

It is incredible to me that you would contrast the "political" means you say are used by Fundamentalists with the violent massacre of innocents used by the Islamo-Fascists.

Yes, tell us about the reaction of the Fundamentalists to the "Life of Brian". I do not quite remember whose life was threatened or which production studio was bombed because of it.

Your statement that "both do not like it when they do not get their own way" (referring to the Fundamentalists and the Muslims) is astonishing. Would you like to get a list of the imprecations and damnations(showing extreme "not liking it when they do not get their own way") from the looney left in the USA? I have a very long list.

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You are correct, Wolf O Donnell. I did misspell Pasha. It is spelled Pascha.

If you go to Google and write in the search box-Cologne-Pascha-Saudi Arabia, you will discover that the Saudis and Iranians did not, as the fundamentalists in our country have done, proceed through the "political process" to effect changes, but indeed threatened the owners of the brothel so that they would remove the Saudi and Iranian flag depictions from the facade of the bordello. It is clear that they are the real paranoics and do not utilize the political process but rather go the way of the thug and the criminal.

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If the Christians thought they could achieve their goals more effectively through violence I'm sure they would do so.

Who gets anything done in Iran or Saudi by lobbying politicians ?!?!

Sure, the muslim methods are more crude but the aims are fundamentally the same....to implement religious ideals into societal rules and, where possible, law.

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no comment other than props on the topic. Good read.

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Wow, I don't believe I managed to read BernardR's tone so well. So his arguments really are driven by emotion.

I stated that the tactic was merely to ensure the certain religious group gets their way. It is the same for both groups mentioned here. I do not deny that there are Muslim groups that are equally as paranoid.

The ends are the same for both groups. The means are different. No matter what you say BernardR, what I say is true, applies to both and is indefensible.

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The Myth of Religious Persecution

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