Understanding by Social Osmosis

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Understanding by Social Osmosis

A wealthy nation just like a wealthy family can maintain a high standard of living even while making a plethora of serious errors in judgment. Someday, however, these serious errors and just the normal course of events will turn the wealth of both into hard times. The degree of error, coupled with the degree of wealth, will determine just how long the fun-and-foolishness can last.

In the recent copy of "Time" the special report is "Dropout Nation", where "30% of America's high school students will leave without graduating." This is a story about the sorry state of education in America and that these facts have remained hidden from the public by our leaders; responding, no doubt, to the desire of the population to remain narcotized in la-la-land.

Every nation, I guess, gets the type of leadership it deserves; the only question is how long America can withstand the foolishness of its citizens.

A rich nation just like a rich family can make many mistakes that never affect their standard of living until someday the mistakes finally take a toll so great as to swamp their wealth and the standard of living goes.

Our understanding is the ?'high-place' from which we view a domain of reality. Most of our understandings are a result of social osmosis (effortless often unconscious assimilation) in our young years. Occasionally we add to or modify these inherited understandings by concentrated intellectual activity or ideological associations in our adult years.

I think we need to lay off the self-induced narcotics and make a concentrated effort to modify or add to our inherited understandings before our national wealth can no longer protect us.

I claim that our understanding is our idiosyncratic ?'model' of a specific domain of reality. An example might be that our knowledge of politics is organized and comprehended based upon our ?'model' of this domain of life.

Do you think that many Americans ever seriously examine their religious understanding during their adult years? Do many every seriously examine their political understanding during adulthood?

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I have long believed, and stated, that the most of people hold their beliefs unexamined. Certitude is the object of faith, be it faith in a religious sect or system or faith in a political faction or system. If one holds one's beliefs unexamined, one is not willingly subjected to the stress of doubt, which is the object of certitude.

Moreover, i submit that not only do the majority of adults hold their beliefs unexamined, they assume that those about them are either apostate (whether religiously or politically) or hold the same beliefs as they do themselves. Were two adults sitting next to one another in church or in a political caucus to exhaustively examine their respective beliefs, i suspect that sooner or later they would find that they disagree. Reason enough, for the faithful, not to inquire too deeply into what they believe.

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Setanta

I agree with your conclusions. Is there anything we (members of this forum) can do to change that situation? Is there anything we should do to change that situation?

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Taken as members of this forum, i'd say there is nothing we can do. More broadly, as members of humanity, i doubt there is anything we can do. Whether or not one ought to make the effort is a personal choice. I point this out to others if it comes up in conversation, but in real life, i avoid discussion of politics or religion, for precisely the reason that people embrace faith for its certitude, and posit, a priori, that they "know" the truth. I therefore consider that it is futile to attempt to change their minds. I've read history all my life--my conclusion is that this is an unchanging aspect of human nature.

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I have always held my opinions (I loath the word 'belief' in reference to myself) open to scrutiny. How else are they to advance and improve?
Of course I'm not your average bear.

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From Joe Average's point of view, where is the incentive to hold all of his/her views open to a more constant scrutiny though? I'd like to think it's that opinions and beliefs are merely stepping stones to a clearer idea of something but I'm not sure whether everyone shares that thought. Generally speaking people only seem to deeply consider those things which directly effect them on a day to day basis. It's all too easy for people to decide something for themselves, to coast through life with this belief and to grow so accustomed to thinking, acting and behaving in such a way that, arguing without thinking in the defence of said opinion becomes second nature.

Maybe we should ask what kinds of beliefs/opinions are available, why we feel such a need to gain a collection of them and which opinions/beliefs are more naturally aggressively/mindlessly defended. Personal identity obviously seems very key to some of this but if more people argued/debated to gain a better understanding of the other side of the coin as opposed to converting the other person we might start to get somewhere.

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However, as Winston Churchill pointed out, a fanatic is someone who won't change his mind, and won't change the subject.

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I think the belief that one's own beliefs should be examined is one that is learned in childhood and not easily shaken. Those of us who hold that belief can't understand those that don't, and to those that don't ....we just look weak for our lack of faith.

So the best thing you can do to win more "converts" to our side is to teach kids to question everything, like my parents did. I think it's too late for adults.

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Eorl wrote:

I think the belief that one's own beliefs should be examined is one that is learned in childhood and not easily shaken. Those of us who hold that belief can't understand those that don't, and to those that don't ....we just look weak for our lack of faith.

So the best thing you can do to win more "converts" to our side is to teach kids to question everything, like my parents did. I think it's too late for adults.

I agree generally with your comment. But so few families emulate your family that democracy is under assualt. The big question it seems to me is 'Can democracy survive?' when so few citizens are prepared to take their responsibility.

Our schools and colleges are begining to teach CT (Critical Thinking) to our young people. CT teaches how to think rather than just what to think. But can we wait for future generations before we acquire a sphisticated citizenry?

A citizen has more responsibility than just to vote. A good citizen must be able to make judgment not just opinion.

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Freedom is a word often used these days for political manipulation because it is a concept that carries great weight with the American people and with all people, I guess. It seems to me that freedom is the power to ?'do' as well as a protection from being ?'done' to. Freedom has both a negative and positive component.

Self-determination is the power to do: it is the freedom and power for each individual to self-determination and also for self-government--to be part of the public policy making process. We Americans have little reason to fear the rise of a tyrant who will deprive us of our freedom ?'from being ?'done' to'. We do, however, have great reason to fear the erosion of the ability of the people to participate in the public policy making process that affects all of our lives.

Public policy making in America has become more and more the province of a small elite. This is not because these elite have taken from the population this freedom by force, but because the population has continued to edge away from their right and responsibility in these matters. We have been complacent in the growing cultural development that isolates the people from those elites who now make public policy.

We see recent evidence that the public opinion can influence policy on those occasions when the public becomes very emotional and cohesive. We also hear of opinion polls that seem to have some effect. However, this happens rarely and provides only a momentary effect.

My interest is in our becoming a citizenry more capable and willing to take on the responsibilities of self-government. We all have opinions about everything but almost all of us do not take our responsibilities seriously enough to become citizens of good judgment. In my opinion (judgment?) there is a great gulf between citizens with opinions and citizens with good judgment. I think that without a significant move from opinion to good judgment we will continue to lose more and more of our ability to self-govern.

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coberst wrote:

Eorl wrote:
I think the belief that one's own beliefs should be examined is one that is learned in childhood and not easily shaken. Those of us who hold that belief can't understand those that don't, and to those that don't ....we just look weak for our lack of faith.

So the best thing you can do to win more "converts" to our side is to teach kids to question everything, like my parents did. I think it's too late for adults.

I agree generally with your comment. But so few families emulate your family that democracy is under assualt.

I don't feel this way where I live, but I am in one the least religious parts of the world, while you.....not-so-much!!

Is that enough to explain the difference, or have I got the cart before the horse, do you think?

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After 10 years of marriage my wife has changed quite a bit and is now willing to question and challenge her once more black and white precepts, and for that matter others as well. She used to consider that I was simply negative and critical at times.

Vancouver BC Canada has a more open feeling to it then many other cities I have been to. Here, it's a bit less bound by traditions and fears and history, and a bit more a "the future is today" feeling.

I also think the internet helps provide some leverage for this potential questioning.

Are these types of things enough to stem the tide of historical momentum and myopic comfortable viewpoints? Perhaps not singularly, but together with future major technological change they may remedeate some of the possible negative effects of short term closed minded precepts.

Take life extension in isolation as one example and ask: if you lived for 800 years, would you consider the ecological implications of today's actions to have a different import?

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Perhaps the Internet brings together such a diverse group of people that there is no way for us to engage in any common endeavor. This medium has its usefulness but perhaps it cannot provide a means for common efforts to solve our differing ailments.

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Could be, but at a minimum you can't disagree with the exposure = tolerance precept (well you can disagree, but I'll find it intolerable).

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For people who truly are intolerant, exposure to difference only confirms their conviction that they are right, and those who disagree are horribly wrong.

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Luckily enough, Setanta, most of those people will eventually filter out in moderate forums like this one, by a process of 'forum osmosis' which lasts for as long as said person can stand the criticism his/her posts illicit.

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The entertaining aspect of that is the fun we can have with them before they give up and go away. We do get quite a few, though, who post a single time, and disappear forever after the initial response.

(The word "illicit," an adjective, means illegal or immoral. You wanted the verb "elicit.")

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We also have the cast-iron impermeable membranes of some of the outer limit long term posters, which (I know I can't help it but I like some of them) have found a niche in the A2K playground for entertainment value / eyebrow raising exercises.

I have very large bushy eyebrows, it's a good facial muscle workout to raise them the required height to express incredulity.

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Understanding by Social Osmosis

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