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Study Shows Remote Prayer Ineffective, Even Harmful

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2006 04:00 pm
The study was funded by the Templeton Foundation, which has in its mission statement

Quote:


their official statement on the results

Quote:
OFFICIAL STATEMENT


The Largest Study of Third-Party Remote Intercessory Prayer Suggests
Prayer Not Effective in Reducing Complications Following Heart Surgery

The John Templeton Foundation was the major funder of the study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP). This project applied a large-scale controlled randomized research model to contribute to a growing number of scientific studies about prayer. Previous studies had attracted widespread public attention and discussion due to claims of positive health outcomes for distant intercessory prayer in which patients were unaware of being prayed for in the context of a research study.

Analysts, however, had pointed to methodological weaknesses calling these results into question. In view of both the empirical uncertainties and the potential significance of a non-null result, the Foundation's advisory board advocated that substantial resources be put forth in order to advance methodological rigor in the design and execution of a new "blue ribbon standard" study. The results of the STEP project document the results of this experimental effort in a peer review journal.

The Foundation supports scientific rigor in all of its research-sponsorship endeavors and fully supports the findings as an example of the value of employing rigorous methodology in research on spiritual topics. Issues relating to the interpretation of the findings are discussed in an overview document which has been posted on this website since October 2002: http://www.templeton.org/spirituality_and_health/spirituality_programs.asp.

The Foundation encourages journalists and other interested persons to consider the various interpretive issues in depth. Prayer research is a fascinating topic and may well continue in additional modes to that presented as the outcome of the STEP project. However, the null results obtained by the methodologically rigorous STEP experiment appear to provide a clear and definitive contrasting result to an earlier published finding (Byrd study) of a positive effect for patient-blind distant intercessory prayer in a prayer experiment involving recovery of patients in a cardiac care unit.* Result: The STEP project did not confirm these findings.

* Note: The Byrd study also involved randomization to receive or not receive patient-blinded distant intercessory prayer.



http://www.templeton.org/index.asp

huh
another mission statement on that page
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2006 04:02 pm
One thing which continues to bug me . . . if they are studying "distant intercessory prayer" of which the objects are unaware, does the physician just let the patient rot while the prayer goes on? How does one determine that prayer, and prayer alone, provided any significant benefit?
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JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2006 04:07 pm
The assumption is that all patients receive quality medical care. By measuring the number of patients who experience complications from similar treatments one can identify other causes and influences. Treatment is obviously confounded with other factors, such as physician and surgical team, but the analysis would have been designed to account for those factors.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2006 04:11 pm
Uh huh . . . sure . . .


Don't take me so seriously, J_B, i was just hoping to get a rise of somebody . . . anybody . . . i don't care . . .
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JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2006 04:13 pm
uh huh .... sure .... Very Happy
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2006 04:14 pm
uh huh

sure

always trying to start a party, that fella
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Pauligirl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2006 05:10 pm
ten years and cost $2.4M......what a waste.
P
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2006 05:27 pm
Chai Tea wrote:
ehBeth wrote:
Don't pray, don't tell.


really.

if you want to pray, go ahead...but as soon as you have to talk about it, it's not about the sick or suffering person, it's about how great you are.

kinda like a funeral, it's doesn't have a thing in the world to do with the dead person...it's either comforting the attendees or showing how wonderful you are for honoring them.

Just leave me out on the curb in a hefty bag on bulky trash day.


Can you clarify, CT? What about all the expressions of sympathy/support/prayer on A2K? Is it all about the members expressing those thoughts, in your view? Those that contribute those kind of posts are only doing so to make themselves feel better, or show everyone else how great they are?

Or are you setting expressions of prayer apart from expressions of sympathy or support? (and if so, why?)
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2006 07:08 am
Quote:
I don't find it surprising at all that the group who knew they were being prayed for faired worse than those who were uncertain. I disagree with the idea that it was because they felt they were too sick, but more likely that they put their care in the hands of the faithful and didn't put as much energy into their own recovery as those who weren't sure. This would give even greater credence to the findings that the prayers weren't helpful.



J_B- As many of the old timers know, some years back I was in a position where I was not supposed to live. I am convinced that it was my non-belief that helped me make it through. Because I knew in my gut that I was the bottom line, I did all that I could to learn about my illness, and took steps to help minimize my anxiety, so as to enhance my immune system.

Since I do not believe in an afterlife, I did not slip into complacency, and was very proactive in dealing with my illness. Through a combination of very advanced medical intervention, with a dash of new age mumbo jumbo, (which can be very helpful) I was able to maximize my chances of hanging on to the only life that I had.

For those who care: 3/28/06 was my 16th anniversary!
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2006 07:18 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:


Since I do not believe in an afterlife, I did not slip into complacency, and was very proactive in dealing with my illness. Through a combination of very advanced medical intervention, with a dash of new age mumbo jumbo, (which can be very helpful) I was able to maximize my chances of hanging on to the only life that I had.

For those who care: 3/28/06 was my 16th anniversary!


Precisely, and Happy Anniversary, Phoenix.
0 Replies
 
kevnmoon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2006 07:29 am
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2006 07:36 am
And the relevance to the study of that screed would be?
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2006 07:37 am
Phoenix--

Happy Anniversary.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2006 07:50 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Chai Tea wrote:
ehBeth wrote:
Don't pray, don't tell.


really.

if you want to pray, go ahead...but as soon as you have to talk about it, it's not about the sick or suffering person, it's about how great you are.

kinda like a funeral, it's doesn't have a thing in the world to do with the dead person...it's either comforting the attendees or showing how wonderful you are for honoring them.

Just leave me out on the curb in a hefty bag on bulky trash day.


Can you clarify, CT? What about all the expressions of sympathy/support/prayer on A2K? Is it all about the members expressing those thoughts, in your view? Those that contribute those kind of posts are only doing so to make themselves feel better, or show everyone else how great they are?

Or are you setting expressions of prayer apart from expressions of sympathy or support? (and if so, why?)


Yes, sure I can clarify.

I see a difference between expressing sympathy/support and praying for someone.

It's a matter of the moment. If you told us you are coming down with a case of the flu, I could say "Oh man, I'm sorry you're going to have to go through all that....hope you feel better" I'm acknowledging you're going to have a rough couple of days, and perhaps letting you know that I've been through that too, so you know you're not alone, and others have made it through. I'm fully aware that my hoping you'll feel better will not do a thing with making it so. I'm just indicating that it would be a good thing to get better. You know my hoping won't do anything either, but it might be nice to know in that moment.
Support? If I lived near you I could say, "Would you like me to go to the store for you?" on the internet I could do something useful like say "Would you like me to send you an article about this?" or "here's a link to some fun mindless games to play while you're recovering." Something practical in both cases.

If the situation were reversed, and you said you hope I feel better soon, I'm thinking "that nice of him" but it's all in that moment. I know that 2 minutes from now you're most likely thinking of something else.

If you said you were going to pray for me, I'm thinking "jeez, It's bad enough I'm sick, now I've got to be responsible for the fact he's taking all this time out of his day, who knows how many times and for how long, to spend time begging God for something that will resovle itself either way over the course of time?

I believe if you're praying for someone close to you, it's just a replacement for the concept of worrying.

I've been there. I recall following an ambulance to the hospital one night and saying "oh God, this is too soon, don't let him die now.....Then, I immediatley thought...."But this might be what's in the cards right now....thy will be done....help me to deal with it if that's what your plans are"
Then, I left it in the hands of medical science, one of Gods tools.


oh....and yeah sure, I'll admit it, sometimes when I've said 'hope you feel better' to someone here.....I do mean it...but it makes me feel better too for throwing my two cents in too.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2006 11:55 am
Okay ... thanks.
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kevnmoon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2006 05:06 pm
dlowan wrote:
And the relevance to the study of that screed would be?

Yes I accept it is so long.. Briefly we ve to open one hand for pray and use other hand to work.. They r together.. Medicine and pray r twinbrother..
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2006 06:21 pm
You say this in the face of a study suggesting prayer can be harmful?

Did you read the study, or understand what the thread was about?
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kevnmoon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2006 06:49 pm
I red the study and also thread .. But I red again more carefully.

Moses (Peace be upon him) shows a lot miracles with his baton.. (or stick).. he dies.. One man came whose name is Moses takes baton and throw it for miracles.. Another man says baton is same baton but Moses is not same Moses..

So pray changes up to person who does it.

Another example one beloved man said to me ''everybody pray for rain but God didn't give.. Also I prayed He didn't showered.'' When I got out I said Oh My God .. shower for the sake of name of this man.. And God showered only one drop on to my hand..
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