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Tue 28 Mar, 2006 12:40 pm
MUSLIMS FORCED TO CHANGE TO SECULAR IN AUSTRALIA...
Australia's intolerance of Islam and Muslims was seen again last week when a senior government minister said that Muslims who wanted to live under Islamic law had no place in Australia and insisted all immigrants must embrace Australian values. Treasurer Peter Costello who is tipped to be the next Prime Minister, in a speech to the conservative think-tank.
The Sydney Institute said, before entering a mosque visitors are asked to take off their shoes. This is a sign of respect. If you have a strong objection to walking in your socks, don't enter the mosque.
Before becoming an Australian you will be asked to subscribe to certain values. If you have strong objections to those values, don't come to Australia. Muslims in Australia have been facing increasing pressure to compromise their noble Islamic values during the past year. After draconian Anti-Terrorism legislation was passed back in November, riots hit Cronulla beach where thousands of Australians practised their Australian values of intolerance and racism attacking anyone who looked Muslim. Many of the rioters wore T-Shirts with ebs out and Ethnic cleansing Unit.
Ironically Australia was established by immigration when Britain colonised Eastern Australia in 1770, establishing it as a Penal Colony. The English Immigrants who arrived on Australia's shores brought with them their intolerant secular values, and did not subscribe to the Australian values of the Aborigines as Costello is demanding of the Muslim immigrants. In fact the combination of European diseases, loss of land and direct violence reduced the indigenous Aboriginal population by an estimated 90% between 1788 and 1900.
Just like the Muslims, Aborigines continue to experience racism and abuse in Australia. Costello's equating of subscribing to Australian values with taking off shoes in a mosque is a distortion to say the least. Muslims in Australia are overwhelmingly law abiding. This is what their Islamic values of respect and shunning criminal acts teaches them.
However, obedience to the law that the overwhelming majority of Muslims perform is completely different to them converting to secularism and rejecting Islamic values.
Although secularism is trumpeted as the best system to establish harmony between different religions, in reality secularism is becoming as bad if not worse than those medieval monarchies in Europe that burnt at the stake those who did not subscribe to their Christian beliefs.
The price all religions are paying in secular societies is the erosion of their religious values and forced conversions to secularism. The recent legal ruling in America against Christians that Intelligent Design could not be taught alongside Evolution Theory in schools is a stark example of this.
Muslims do not want their religion to become how Christianity has become, where no aspect of their belief is sacred and their religion is open to constant abuse and ridicule. The recent episode with the publishing of insulting cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad (saw), was testing the water on how far the secular states can go in trying to convert Muslims to their belief.
The Muslims in Europe and throughout the world unanimously showed their opposition to these cartoons and drew a line in the sand that must not be crossed. However, this intellectual battle must continue as secularism will continue to try and redraw the line until nothing is left of Islam and it becomes just like Christianity.
Imam Qarafi (Classical Islamic Scholar) summed up the responsibility of the Caliphate to the dhimmi when he said: It is the responsibility of the Muslims to the People of the Dhimma to care for their weak, fulfil the needs of the poor, feed the hungry, provide clothes, address them politely, and even tolerate their harm even if it was from a neighbour, even though the Muslim would have an upper hand. The Muslims must also advise them sincerely on their affairs and protect them against anyone who tries to hurt them or their family, steal their wealth, or violates their rights.
Source:
KC Journal
Myself:
As muslims in the states, sure there are problems but America is very diverse and we practice Islam without much problem. Europe/Australia, I assume is very different since it is a homogenous continent, I am curious about the nomads who live in EU/Australia, how is the muslim community there and your experiences. Is what we here just hype, or true.
Not being Muslim I can't really speak from a muslim perspective. But I work with a muslim guy and he seems happy.
The cronulla riots were not about religion, but were certainly fuelled by ignorance and intolerance (and decades of westie/surfie rivalry).
The 'Australian values' line has been lampooned roundly in Australia.
We are have a government that sees promoting fear as a way of holding onto power. I hope that will change soon - but it seems to be a model for a large part of the western world.
Don't make the mistake of thinking of Australia as a Christian nation - we're mostly secular, and not as homogenous as you might think.
What is your response to the demand from muslim Afghan clerics for the death of a muslim who converted to christianity?
Be wary of tarring all with the same brush. I know I am.
Also, as disadvantaged as Australian aboriginals are (in some cases), they are not treated the as badly as the pro-Islamic Sudanese government treats the christian southerners in Darfur.
Glass houses.
And that quote about modern secularlism being like medieval monarchies burning people at the stake is adding, pardon the pun, fuel to the fire of misunderstanding.
The article is promoting (through misinformation and unsubstantiated claim) disharmony.
I commend you for asking for an Australian muslim's clarification, but there's only about 10-15 Australians on A2K and I don't think any of them are muslim.
The wonderful thing about this world is no-one's perfect - or even close. I just wish we could focus more on where we're alike rather than where we're different.
Much as I dislike Costello, I think he said that Muslims who wanted to see Australia run under Sharia law might as well leave, and, much as I dislike some of his anti Muslim crap, I agree with him on this.
Australia is a pluralist democracy, and people who are going to have serious problems with that would be happier living in places whioch WILL accept Sharia law. Australia isn't going to.
What noble Islamic whatsits are Muslims being asked to forsake?
I agree that Australian Muslims have overwhelmingly been good and decent citizens, and that the government has inflamed prejudice with some of its rhetoric. I am ashamed to have them as my government for this and other reasons, but I think you use rhetoric just as inflated and unhelpful.
I agree that stupid Australians have been moved to prejudice against Muslims, as stupid people are moved to stupid prejudices worldwide. Muslims comprising their fair share of the stupid and prejudiced.
The issue of how much immigrants should be expected to take on the mores of the host culture is a topic for endless and fascinating debate....probably one without any final possible resolution, but one which is vital.
Clearly, no country will tolerate immigrant groups breaking important laws, and it is likely unreasonable to expect anything different.
I've recently moved from Scotland to Australia, I'm not muslim (i'm jewish) but have a few close muslim friends both in Scotland and in Brisbane where i live. Both sets of friends are more than happy living where they do. in scotland i have actually faced more prejudice (for religion) than they have!
About the above issue - one friend in particular said that her and her family had moved in afghanistan to get away from the values (from the taliban) in her country which her family did not agree with.
she says the most important thing that australia has is democracy. She does understand people who move over here and want to replicate what they had back in their original countries. She can't comprehend why some people come over as humanitarian refugees (as she did) and then say that all they want is the same system of law they had in their own country.
i also don't think costello actually said that life under islamic law wasn't allowed... i believe he said that if people weren't willing to accept australias values (which i presume to be democracy, equal rights, freedom of speech etc etc etc) then they should not move here. as dlowan said - if people aren't happy with that then there are other countries then can move to!
Your allegation is, in that title, at least, that Muslims are required to "change to secular." Apart from being awkwardly expressed, nothing in the article, nor in Mr. Costello's remarks as quoted suggest that in the slightest degree are Muslims obliged to abandon their belief in Islam to become "secular." As Australia never has been subject to sharia, this entire charge is an absurdity--nothing has changed, for Muslims long resident there, nor for new arrivals.
You claim that you live in the United States. No state in this Union recognizes nor tolerates the ascendancy of sharia. The Federal government does not recognize sharia, nor allow its ascendancy in any of the territories which it governs outside the fifty States. The situation is no different than that in Australia, and unless i badly miss my bet, the rhetoric against Islam has been much more vociferous and more widely spread in the United States than has ever been the case in Australia.
The sky is falling ! ! ! The sky is falling ! ! !
-- C. Little
By the way, it is generally considered good manners to post a link to the page you are quoting, and it is not thought necessary to cut/paste the entire article in such a case. As it stands now, we have no idea of what "KC Journal" means--it may well be a ranting pro-Muslim rag which has cobbled together a raging screed from the thoughtless remarks of a temporary government idiot in Oz.
bm
Interesting responses. Be back later.
I tracked down the source, Set - it was on
http://www.khilafah.com but has since been removed
Google still has it cached at:
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:2bZ800YeTVUJ:www.khilafah.com/home/category.php%3FDocumentID%3D12974%26TagID%3D1+%22Before+becoming+an+Australian+you+will+be+asked+to+subscribe+to+certain+values%22&hl=en&gl=au&ct=clnk&cd=4
And the poster has deleted at least one paragraph from the item:
Quote:
The Islamic Caliphate is always attacked as spreading Islam by the sword forcing non-Muslims to convert to Islam and its values. However, unlike secularism the Islamic system deals with different religions in a unique way creating harmony amongst them, enabling them to live in peace with each other as existed in the Caliphate before. Non-Muslims have a citizenship contract with the Caliphate called dhimma. This contract does not require them to give up their religious values. We will not say to non-Muslims in the Caliphate you must adopt Islamic values or leave. Rather the only requirement for non-Muslims is to obey the law of the land outside of their personal lives and worship.
Quite an interesting omission, no?
Very. Oh, and a big welcome to FlyDownUnder - welcome to A2K!
Interesting omission - and what the hell is KC Journal! Thanks for doing the work, hinge!
Flydownunder - welcome to A2k!
I think ALL hysterics should be shot!
I think my country's treatment of muslims is generally somewhat better than most muslim countries would treat an atheist like me. Having said that I'd like to see Australians more tolerant and less racist on the whole.
ffydownunder, welcome ! (Hope you aren't anywhere near Kessels Road. Planes seem to be falling as well as the rain.)
Margo - I think ALL generalizations are ridiculous :wink:
Eorl! long time no read.
Hey hinge, perhaps we should be immunised against generalizations?
(Language IS a virus)
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