The status of our symbols.

The ability to speak and write coherently. The ability to frame a pertinent response which is also a complete sentence when asked a question.

In how they conduct themselves with others.
If one hasn't learned to treat others with respect and courtesy,
one certainly has not acquired sophistication.

To me, a sophisticated person is cultivated,
intellectually stimulating, and is blessed with
formidable worldly wisdom.

I think along those same lines, Setanta.

In general I'm unimpressed with the things that people own. Especially so when what they "own" is, say, botox injections.

Today I find myself looking around my house at what I own and wondering what message it sends to people who come into my house.

Why do I display what I display?
What do I have that I'm proud of?
What gives me a little thrill when people comment on it?
And what does that little thrill say about me?
What do the symbols say about me and what do they suggest about my status?

Another very good answer, thanks CJane!

I've always thought it interesting that pretentious behavior was associated with sophistication.

Now I suppose I'll have to ask myself what I might be a snob about.

A tell-tale sign, for me, of true sophistication is the ability to listen without trying to monopolize a conversation.

I've always had great respect for people that are willing to listen to what others have to say (within measure of course. :wink:)

Another thought provoking answer. Thank you eryemil.

It is notable that nobody has named an object they believe signifies sophistication.

There was a series of ads recently to the effect that "...what they'll remember is your watch..."

Your watch? I racked my brain trying to remember anybody's watch other than to make them take it off for their photograph. I've never had anyone say "Oh no! The watch stays!".

The advertisments were obviously trying to sell status via watch ownership.

Does anyone think this was an effective advertisment or does it leave you as baffled as it does me?

An object that would signify sophistication for me?

How about a bookcase full of well kept, well read books, as opposed to library full of dusty tomes?

It becomes apparent that some people buy things just for the status value. Art for example, it irritates me that people with no appreciation of art whatsoever own paintings that are loved by others from all around the world. (Can you say pet peeve?)

Eryemil says something that indicates what I was thinking but hadn't typed 'cause it seems kind of opposite of the point of the thread -- stuff that makes me think less of the person when I see it. That does happen, though I'm not proud of it. Went to a friend's house recently and she had a print of that uber-kitsch painting over the fireplace that you see everywhere -- not Thomas Kincaid, but a couple dancing on the seashore with a maid and butler attending...

FOUND IT!

This one:



I had a definite snob reaction. ("Eww...")

Trying to think of what, object-wise, would give me the opposite reaction:

- Interesting use of color
- Demonstration of personality rather than cookie-cutter conformity
- Original art BY the owner of the house that is well-done and not ostentatious
- Books, definitely
- Interesting collections of meaningful things (objects collected on travels, that sort of thing)
- Excellent homemade cooking/ baking (I'm terrible at that)

Hmm, will keep thinking.

I'm always a little suspicious of a house without books. I know that a lot of people use the library but every home should have a well thumbed something.

I suppose I've had that "snob alarm" jangle a time or two, too, soz. I think it is really more of a curiosity about why anyone would spend money on something like that.

I have a brother in law who's face appears with the word "pretentious" in the dictionary. Unfortunately my sister has become very much like him.

You can't talk to either about anything without the price of whatever coming up.

Or that they know a bakery/cheesemaker/boutique butcher shop that does things better than any place you could possibly know.

In their life, everything is a status symbol. In most cases it is because Someone Who Knows has deemed said object the Best of Breed. I doesn't really matter whether they truly like it or not.

Their house, their clothes, their cars, their everything is a study in urban chic and sophistication. They have all of the sophistication that money can buy.

But I have to wonder at my own pretentiousness when I snicker at the sucker factor of so much of what they spend their money on.

Maybe, just maybe I'm a bigger snob than they are!

I re-read my list and while I know what I was getting at I don't like it. I think the only one I'll really stand by is:



There isn't any one personality type I like, but the types of personalities I like/ respect/ find sophisticated are the ones that are well-developed and find expression in various ways, including outer ways. But those ways can vary widely from each other.

Heehee...an infinite snob regress is occurring, as we struggle to decide whether our symbols of anti snobbery are, in fact, a different snobbery!

Big snobs have little snobs
Upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little snobs have littler snobs,
And so ad infinitum.



I dunno....I think that, as social critturs, we may have the desire for symbols denoting our place in the pecking order kind of hard wired in, though I hate to say it.


Humans DO from pecking orders, and have always been interested in status. I think we simply now have a plurality of different pecking orders to partake in, and a plethora of differing symbols.....and we get to feel bad about it...if we are more "enlightened".....is our guilt another status symbol?



I am a bit anxious, for example, to present a pleasing home when I have visitors I do not know well...not an EXPENSIVE home..but an interesting one. A different status symbol.

snob marking, boomer:

Definition
SNOB Sans Noblesse
SNOB Shortest Nuke On Board
SNOB Sine Nobilis (Latin)
SNOB Slightly North of Broad

not only is that not over my fireplace, i never saw it until you posted it. what does that imply about my sophistication?

i do have a pricey watch, if that's any indication. maybe i won't wear it at the chicago get together, lest anyone think more or less of me because of it.

That reminded me of an incident a few years back. I had stopped in a restaurant somewhere in the Midwest while traveling about the country and the booths in the restaurant had built-in bookcases on the end wall. I examined the books and tried to extract one, then came to the realization that they were glued in place. Upon further examination I realized the books had been sawn and only the remaining two inches or so were attached to the wall.

I asked the waitress about this particular abuse of books and she told me the owner had used his bandsaw to cut the books, then glue them in place.

These weren't Readers Digest Condensed books either; there were some true classics in place; Dickens, Twain, Poe, etc. etc.

I was more than a little miffed at the ridiculous destruction of these books. Somewhere in that little hamlet a kid possibly missed the opportunity to read Oliver Twist because this moron wanted to make his restaurant look "intellectual".

I continued on my journey and ate at the next available restaurant.

when i visited NYC last fall, i stayed at the Library Hotel. it's a couple of blocks from the central library, and each room is numbered according to the Dewey Decimal sytem and contains hardcover books that belong to the same category as the room number. my room's subject was Painting, so the books were quite nice. guess i'm sophisticated after all.

A pretty good advertisement to sell watches. It got your attention didn't it? :wink: Anyways, if it were effective on me, it would make me think that time is important, not the watch.

Yitwail - that sounds great!

Part of my definition is what Sophistication isn't. Sophistication does not come out of a crate and barrel box.

You need religion, Boomer, and I don't mean The Church of I Cannot Believe It's Not Butter.. Thorstein Veblen offers it as an outstanding example of conspicuous consumption.

You know, boomer, many years ago when I was really in to reading, I became fascinated with a book by Vance Packard called The Status Seekers.

A brief excerpt:

The main reality is our tendency toward greater rigidity in our stratification while pretending that precisely the opposite is occurring. We are consigning tens of millions of our people to fixed roles in life where aspiration is futile, and yet we keep telling them that those who have the stuff will rise to the top. We don't even allow them the satisfaction of feeling secure, dignified, and creative in their low status. And, socially, we look down upon them.

Because of this frustration and isolation imposed upon many members of the supporting classes, we have a frightful shattering of integrity. This shows up in the extraordinarily high psychoses rates we encounter as we approach the bottom of our social scale. And it shows up in the fantastically high delinquency and crime rates among the younger poor of America. In Spain, where class lines are better understood and accepted, you have vastly more poverty but relatively little accompanying juvenile delinquency.

Perhaps it also shows up in something medical investigators have noticed. As you get near the bottom of the social scale, there is an abrupt rise in a disorder called anomie - - feeling isolated, loosely attached to the world, and convinced that things are tough all over.

Status distinctions would appear to be inevitable in a society as complicated as our own. The problem is not to try to wipe them out -- which would be impossible -- but to achieve a reasonably happy society within their framework. If we accept that context, much can be done to promote contentment, mutual respect, and life satisfaction.

making certain that people of real talent are discovered and encouraged to fulfill their potential regardless of their station in life. is very important.

As for me, dear, status symbols no longer matter. I think C.J, summed it up nicely. Sophistication has nothing to do with what we own, but who we are and how we carry ourselves in any given situation.