Nationalism: The Other Religion?

I suppose, it depens on how you interpret 'nationalism'.

It's IMHO an ideology based on the premise that the individual's loyalty and devotion to the nation-state surpass other individual or group interests.

So it really might be a surrogate for s.o.'s religion but mostly, I think, it's something running parallel.
(The 19th century is generally called "the century of nationalism" in Europe - no decline of religions at all.)

Nations are nature's basic system for eliminating bad political ideas.

The commie empire collapsed because mid to upper level gebeshniki and Russian pols were able to walk around in German shopping malls and stadtmittel shopping areas and see ordinary Germans buying things which they, the overlords of the commie world could not buy or own.

Suppose however that the whole world had gone communist in 45 or 46, i.e. suppose that FDR had died in 40 and Henry Wallace had taken over as president of the US. There would have been no basis for comparison; nobody would have had a way to know there were better ways to live and the human race might easily have gone extinct.

Likewise Detroit had gone utterly brain-dead by the mid 70s and early eighties and it took a major infusion of Japanese cars into America to break the logjam. We could easily have gone back to horses and mules had Detroit gone on the way they were in 82 - 85.

One-world government is a BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD idea.

I brought this up in part because some of the religious posters that I have chatted appear to use similar oblique rationalizations to justify their nationalist stance as they do to justify their religious stance. I expanded on that observation to say that nationalism, in the broader sense has a certain equivalency to a religion.

I do not mean the governmental formalized nationalistic perspective as much as I mean people's emotionalism, beliefs and rationalizations towards nationalism and religion being cut from the same cloth.

I wasn't referring to anything else.

Ah, interesting, I see your point.

Also I made a very modest pork joke in the title
"Pork: The Other White Meat?"

Correct, Chum. I see you took my gustatorial advice.

As I posted elsewhere:

Anyone who doesn't think nationalism is a religion should try publicly burning their nation's flag.

Here are some definitions of nationalism that would suggest parallels to religion and are on point (more or less) to my assertions:

An individual's internalization of the set of beliefs and values expressing love, pride and identification with a given nation state. Ritual and symbols are important tools in fostering nationalism among the citizenry.

Loyalty and devotion to a nation or ethnic group that places emphasis on promoting the interests, cultural and social values, or religion of one group above all others.

Pride in one's country or culture, often excessive in nature.

The advocacy of the utmost political advancement of one's nation or people, without regard to the consequences, in promoting hostility and competition, discrimination and vilification. See fundamentalism.

The doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:nationalism

Right you are Neo!

You should keep in mind that many states are nations in some sense, but there are a lot of nations which are not fully (sovereign) states.

Besides, burning a nations (state's) flag isn't everywhere such a dilemna as e.g. in the USA. :wink:

Meaning they are not as fully autonomous and hence not as nationalistic?

No, meaning that nationalism isn't to be narrowed to states but to nations.

Nations like in 'Indian nations', the various nations in the former USSR, former Yugoslavia, Bretonic nationalism in France ... anything outside state-focused nationalism.

Walter does not perhaps see it that way. He assess nations, nationalism, states, nation-states, and religion by different sets of criteria. I am not sure I understand his delineations

Nationalism is definitely similar to religion in many ways and I find it difficult to understand the difference between nationalism and racism or even xenophobia. It certainly has the potential for extreme damage (see Hitler, A.)

At the very least nationalism is anti-humanist.

It's hard to resist though....who doesn't feel something when your countryman wins an Olympic medal?

I wonder if that implies it's tied to our baser drives?

I reckon so Chumly. Safety in numbers.

Chumly,

Your question implies that you may already be aware of Krishnamurti's comparison of nationalism with organised religion. Heres a link to his UN talk.

http://www.krishnamurtiaustralia.org/articles/world_peace.htm

I wasn't and thanks much!