Is Religion Inherently Misogynistic?

Reform Judaism is quite progressive-- There are women Rabbi's. That's the bright spot.

Contrary to what chumly says-- Growing up Jewish and female, oy. You don't know from it chumly because I take it you are a man.

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Gala- That is exactly my point...............I believe that there is a continuum. The more progressive the religion, the less misogyny that you will find.

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Phoenix, I think I could see your point if it were more of a universal thing. For instance, in your post about the funeral pyre it states:

Quote:

The practice was not universal throughout Hindu history. It was abolished by law in British India in 1829, but isolated cases of voluntary suttee have occurred into the 20th cent.

So, I don't see how this really equates to today. This was absolished.I would imagine that whether one has a religion or not there will always be those that are biased toward women or something else.

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Gala wrote:

Contrary to what chumly says-- Growing up Jewish and female, oy. You don't know from it chumly because I take it you are a man.

See below as posted earlier. If I could argue the point I would, as it would be fun. In this case it's a question of semantics and interpretation only.

Chumly wrote:

I should provide a caveat to my above response (before I get crucified) in that I meant directly and personally which is how I took it when you used the phrase "perceived a bias".

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Momma Angel wrote:

So, I don't see how this really equates to today. This was absolished.I would imagine that whether one has a religion or not there will always be those that are biased toward women or something else.

India was a colony of Great Britain. The British abolished it, but it was still a part of the Indian culture. The fact that some women voluntarily immolated themselves, says volumes.

Polygamy was outlawed in America years ago, but some Mormons still practice it.

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Understood, Phoenix. Do you have any statistics? I'm curious about how many do still practice this. Thank you for responding.

I haven't found any statistics yet, but here are some Satis performed that were considered historical events.

http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/women/sati/timeline.htm

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http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/2004-10-03-turley_x.htm

Quote:

As many as 50,000 polygamists live in the United States.

I could not find any hard statistics, but I found this article. I would suspect that some of this practice is not publicized, as it IS illegal.

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Well, I have to admit I had no idea that there were what are called polyganists (I think that's what it said). A woman with multiple husbands. Hadn't a clue. Thanx Phoenix.

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The fact that traditional religion IS misogynistic is evidence for its social construction in order to reify chauvinistic tribal norms.

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Chumly, could you make your caveat a little more clear then? I'm not understanding it, although I have an inkling of what you are trying to say. Thanks.

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Here are some highlights of Reform Judaism:

1.Reform Jews are committed to the absolute equality of women in all areas of Jewish life. We were the first movement to ordain women rabbis, invest women cantors, and elect women presidents of our synagogues.

2.Reform Jews are also committed to the full participation of gays and lesbians in synagogue life as well as society at large.

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Many who have private reasons for subjecting women forget the many fine things Paul had to say in their behalf, both individually, and in this generalized statement:
"All of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:27, 28)

The scriptures (non canonical Ecclesiastictus notwithstanding) do not support hatred and suppression of women.

Which is why Paul explained the difference in culpability thus:
". . . Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived." (2 Timothy 2: 14)

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Gala,

Do reform Jews circumcise ? If so why ?

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Gala wrote:

Chumly, could you make your caveat a little more clear then? I'm not understanding it, although I have an inkling of what you are trying to say. Thanks.

I interpreted Phoenix32890's question

Phoenix32890 wrote:

Have you ever perceived a bias against women in your religion?

by saying

Chumly wrote:

If you mean my ethnic origins as a Jew and it's religious underpinnings then no.

then adding

Chumly wrote:

I should provide a caveat to my above response (before I get crucified) in that I meant directly and personally which is how I took it when you used the phrase "perceived a bias".

She did not ask if there were any "bias against women in your religion" she asked "have you ever perceived a bias against women in your religion" which I took to mean specifically and directly. Further I referred to the fact that I am a Jew by ethnic origin.

I am sure I could have said it all more clearly but I was busy fixing the bathroom floor.

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There's gotta be a good joke in there, someone help me please!

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Bobbles wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Bobbles wrote:
When I used to attend church there certainly was no bias against women, other than the fact they couldn't be a priest.

Besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, How was the play?

But men can't be nuns either, so that equalizes any suspected bias.

But think of the role that many nuns play in the service of the church. Often they assume the role basically of servants to the male officials in the church.

Bobble, nuns tradionally got stuck with all the grunt work of the RC church. Honestly, unless things have changed drastically in the last 25 years, I imagine they still do.

Nuns (at least in the order I'm most familiar with) wear wedding bands because they say they are married to Jesus....The priest gets to act in Jesus stead during the sacrement of communion...AND the priest acts in the Father's place during the sacrement of confession.

Priest's administer all 7 sacrements...nuns, zero.

There is no way one can equate the power and postion of a priest to that of a nun.

If a nun were discovered sexually abusing a child, do you think the legal army of the RC Church would rush to her aid?

Many priests, from my personal experience during the 60's, 70's and 80's really get off on this power trip...They get attention and special treatment in public and private situations.

I've never met a nun who even got preferencial treatment, let alone consider it their due.

So in a word, yes, I have seen this particular relegion as having a bias against women.

Examples I'm more familiar with now are Southern Baptists and Mormons....don't get me started.

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fresco, I don't know if they circumcise or not-- but seeing as they are practicing Jews they probably do. Why? My understanding is it's always been a hygene issue.

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Chumly wrote:

Gala wrote:
Chumly, could you make your caveat a little more clear then? I'm not understanding it, although I have an inkling of what you are trying to say. Thanks.
I interpreted Phoenix32890's question
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Have you ever perceived a bias against women in your religion?
by saying
Chumly wrote:
If you mean my ethnic origins as a Jew and it's religious underpinnings then no.
then adding
Chumly wrote:
I should provide a caveat to my above response (before I get crucified) in that I meant directly and personally which is how I took it when you used the phrase "perceived a bias".
She did not ask if there were any "bias against women in your religion" she asked "have you ever perceived a bias against women in your religion" which I took to mean specifically and directly. Further I referred to the fact that I am a Jew by ethnic origin.

I am sure I could have said it all more clearly but I was busy fixing the bathroom floor.

Sorry, I can't find the joke in busy fixing the bathroom floor, but it gave me a chuckle.

I still don't know what you are saying. Coould you dumb it down for me? what I think you are saying is: You perceived females and males were treated equally in your religion.

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Gala,

No it is no longer a hygiene issue, unless medically indicated. Its origins are probably from a pagan fertility rite.

The point is that if done for religious reasons then Reform Jews are differentiating between the sexes from birth.

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Actually, I think non religious homes have as well been misogynistic through most of history, whether as a reflection of the prevailing religious mores, or because it's human nature. As a kid, in particular, I watched husbands order wives like they were not much up the hierarchy than the children. (Honey, make us some coffee." "Honey, there's a mess in the kitchen.") My family never discussed religion at all, except for the rare times (three or four) my step father said, "Sunday, we're all going to get in the car and go to church." But, he was supreme ruler of the household. I see lots of families behaving much the same today, even among non church goers.

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Is Religion Inherently Misogynistic?

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