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Primordial Cosmic Ocean Khirasagara

 
 
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 08:43 am
Primordial Cosmic Ocean Khirasagara

Ksheerasagara Manthanam
I'm always doing research and I wanted to find a story that told the creation or lack thereof in a way that was in alignment with my own contemporary understanding of things such as the current state of affairs with chaos theory, nuclear physics etc... Usually people don't believe in something bcause it's proved to be true, they adopt it because they believe it will protect them or they've had a direct perception of it often in the form of an experience of horror, order or beauty which is the real basis of faith. They've perceived what appeared to be gods or the structure of the universe in as direct a manner as might be possible and don't just believe because they were born into a church that told them to believe.

They don't just believe because they need to believe in order to be accepted into their thickly ethnocentric communities. They actually encountered it with their own eyes or with their inner eyes. Of course such experiences are always subjective but there are reasons to say one believes in the unseen if they HAVE seen it, however visionary an experience it may have been.

It doesn't have to be some profound vision though, it can just be a general sense or intuition. Many Hindu stories resonate well with me. One story of the Hindu creation says that before the universe there was the primordial ocean(that was NOT a void which is an idea the ancients never held).

From within the cosmic ocean stirred the World Serpent Sheshnaga. The sound of Om started to reverberate through the murky depths and this created an egg. From within the egg was born Vishnu who then slept on the unmanifest coils of cyclic time that is the body of Sheshnaga.

From his navel sprang a lotus blossom which contained the god Brahm with 4 heads. Vishnu intended Brahm to create the universe which he did. I like this story because it shows the Asian creation idea that things can be made from chaos. And that chaos and order are not mutually exclusive.

A related story is the churning of the cosmic ocean. Here is a link to a very short version of the story. http://www.sanatansociety.org/indian_epics_and_stories/the_churning_of_the_ocean.htm
Essentialy the gods and demons wanted to get the elixer of immortality known as Amrita and needed each other's help. They wrapped the world serpent-this time Vasuki-around the cosmic mountain that they placed upside down in the waters in order to turn it.

They gods pulled on the tail and the demons pulled the head. As they churned the ocean the snake vomited poison which Shiva put in his mouth. Then the mountain began to sink so Vishnu became a giant turtle to support the mountain under the water.

The ocean produced many things both terrible and wonderful. This story is told in stone at Ankor Wat in Cambodia as well as in other places. The story exactly explains how I see the creative process. The elements are just small steps similar to molecules of water, fat, calcium etc... different things come together in a formless mixture.

Then as an artist goes through all of the possible permutations of combinations he is able to form both good and bad ideas. He probably needs help from others as well to arrive at that point just as in the story. It's the artist's job to know which ideas are bad, good and great and which are worth persuing.

I relate a great idea to creating the elixer of life Amrita. So, I've adopted this story as a truth which I believe and am happy to see the Southeast Asians see it's value as well.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 09:38 am
It is amazing what one will accept as truth after sitting too close to the gongchime.
0 Replies
 
Gongchime
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 06:14 am
I take that you imagine the bible to be a justification for something. Perhaps everything. It doesn't have any authority with me.

Gongchime
0 Replies
 
vinsan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 08:40 am
Re: Primordial Cosmic Ocean Khirasagara
Gongchime wrote:

The ocean produced many things both terrible and wonderful. This story is told in stone at Ankor Wat in Cambodia as well as in other places. The story exactly explains how I see the creative process. The elements are just small steps similar to molecules of water, fat, calcium etc... different things come together in a formless mixture.

Then as an artist goes through all of the possible permutations of combinations he is able to form both good and bad ideas. He probably needs help from others as well to arrive at that point just as in the story. It's the artist's job to know which ideas are bad, good and great and which are worth persuing.

I relate a great idea to creating the elixer of life Amrita. So, I've adopted this story as a truth which I believe and am happy to see the Southeast Asians see it's value as well.


This is described in Indian Vedas to the fullest. Every Indian knows about Sagara Manthan Myth logically. But the belief is ONLY among Hindus. Hence the artist mocked the famous incident from the Vedas on the Cambodian stone sculptures as the Ankor Wat was a Hindu kingdom.

Its good to know you believe this but again some non-atheist Hindus don't believe this & treat it as pure mythology e.g. me.

But yes I do get impressed with the ancient Hindu Big Bang and Origin of Life concept that matches so much with the Intelligent Design.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 09:16 am
Gongchime wrote:
I take that you imagine the bible to be a justification for something. Perhaps everything. It doesn't have any authority with me.

Gongchime
Sorry. Didn't think you were serious. It has always been my contention that a loving God would not teach us with fanciful and esoteric stories understood by only a few.
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Gongchime
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 11:06 am
You're missing the point.

It implies that the primordial chaos contained elements or processes that create order. In that case, it would not be necessary to invoke the existence of a creator. It's seems to be quite a simple story, really, when boiled down.

However, the arguments both for and against the existence of a creator make no sense. Oops a paradox. I guess we'll have to use something besides the rationalism of the era of western enlightment to grok it.

I wasn't really going there with it though. All I was saying was that it's a metaphor for the creative process which is a functional truth for me.

Gongchime
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 11:32 am
Why invoke the existence of gods in the explanation?
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Gongchime
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2006 09:03 pm
Metaphor? Hello? I must not have made myself very clear. Anyway, no metaphor is an exact copy of the thing it represents. I'm focused on the ocean. Your focused on the gods, I'm not.

Gongchime
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 05:09 pm
Gong chime?
More like, bong time.
Smoke another one, dude.
0 Replies
 
Gongchime
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2006 07:20 am
I'm as clean as they come. Never touch the stuff and don't crave it. How much weed do you think I can get in Korea? And even if I could, I wouldn't want to end up in any of Asia's jail systems. So, it's just not gonna happen. You seem to be focused on it though. Quit now, avoid the rush.

Gongchime
0 Replies
 
 

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