Dozens more Abu Ghraib abuse images broadcast

Could you tell me, please, how do the insurgents treat their prisoners?

Are we vying with them for the number one spot on the brutality list?

Brandon - WHAT THE F&*^% DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT AMERICANS ARE ABUSING PRISONERS? SHOULD WE GAUGE OUR BEHAVIOR BASED ON THE LOWEST OF THE LOW?

JUST EXACTLY HOW SOLD OUT AND BRAINWASHED ARE YOU? WHAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN BEFORE YOU QUESTIONED YOUR LEADERSHIP?

So far we have heard from prisoners that the insurgents were treating them fairly well. That may be relative; they were not living in luxury.

Some were executed in front of a camera. That is a major and inhuman crime.

We know that the Abu Ghraib prisoners lived in inhuman conditions. We know that many of the torture victims were innocent bystanders arrested in a sweep.

We don't know how many of them were tortured to death.

Here is the full set of the new pictures, from the Australian organization that broke the story:

http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/gallery.php?gallID=20

Their server is moving rather slow at the moment, probably because of high levels of traffic.

It doesn't justify it, but it would give a little perspective. And please try to keep the swearing down when responding to posts that are themselves calm and polite (if you can).

What perspective, exactly?

This perspective exactly. Assume that your country's armies have a few bad soldiers, perhaps including officers, who are abusing prisoners with about the same frequency as in past wars. Assume that the enemy abuses prisoners routinely. In that case, you should punish those in your military who treat prisoners improperly, and let it be known that it will not be tolerated, but you should also recognize that the sins on your side are not large compared to the sins on the other side.

When an accountant beats his wife, he is a cowardly monster.
When a policeman beats his wife, he is worse.

A terrorist who kills civilians is a low-life criminal.

A soldier who tortures civilians in an occupied country is worse.

Not quite.


I think the implicit theory is that, until the entire world is perfect, Americans (not sure if this extends to your allies in the invasion of Iraq or not?) can do as many bad things as they like, without censure. While having, according to this implicit theory, the right to tell others what to do, because they know what is right.

I do not think the supporters of this theory have quite grasped that more than one group can be wrong at the same time; so American brutal treatment of ITS prisoners can be wrong, without implying that some other group's brutal treatment of ITS prisoners is right.

That seems to be a tough concept for some.

Assume that you know who the enemy is. Now assume that they take prisoners in a systematic way and house them in prisons. Now assume that they do exactly what you do.

Assume that your country's armies have been abiding by a code of conduct and certain conventions with respect to the treatment of prisoners for a very long time. Then assume that higher ups in the current government have sent the message that those things no longer apply and that we really need to get information to prevent terrorist attacks, so the gloves are off. Assume you resurrect prisons that are infamous for torture and that, contrary to your stated intentions, torture keeps happening there. Now assume that we want to pretend that we are punishing the few bad apples that keep popping up (where do they keep coming from these bad apples, didn't they get the message that we "don't do torture"?) so what do we do? Assume that you court martial the lowest ranked enlisted men/women you can find that were involved.

What I see from you are a lot of assumptions and minimizations of responsibility but little else. Torture is a large sin -- large enough that we have treaties and conventions banning it. Large enough that we have US laws banning it. Large because it deprives a person of their humanity and dignity, most obscenely without due process. There is no perspective you can give that will minimize that.

Isn't it nice to know we are even more barbaric than they are.

Because the insurgents are invading another country and are democratic nation and have signed up to treaties we can make the moral parallel with the US abuses?????

Your so full of **** brandon!!

Chock full, right to the rim...