Hey everyone, I have a CONTRIDICTION for you to look t for me:
Will jesus burn in hell? Jesus is raised to Allah, [sura 4:158] near stationed with him [sura 3:45] worshiped by billions of christians yet Sura 21:98 says, that all who worshiped by men other then allah will burn in the eternal flame with all who worship them. CONTRIDICTION- jesus cant be in heaven and hell forever at the same time!
Come back when your spelling improves (never mind your sense of proportion), and we'll discuss this.
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Lord Ellpus
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Tue 24 Jan, 2006 04:02 pm
How's your cass-e-role coming along, Set?
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Setanta
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Tue 24 Jan, 2006 04:03 pm
It's burning as we speak . . .
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Arella Mae
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Tue 24 Jan, 2006 07:07 pm
holy_rosary,
I am afraid I don't really understand what you are asking here. Are you saying the Quran is contradictory in stating this or are you saying anyone that worships Jesus is contradicting the Quran?
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Setanta
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Tue 24 Jan, 2006 07:33 pm
She's (?) ultramontane, you can bet this is yet another Islam bashfest . . .
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Doktor S
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Tue 24 Jan, 2006 07:37 pm
Quote:
ultramontane
Set just taught me another new $20 word.
Neato.
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Setanta
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Tue 24 Jan, 2006 07:40 pm
Them boys an' girls is just as much fun as a barrel full o' fundys . . .
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Doktor S
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Tue 24 Jan, 2006 07:45 pm
The relative fun value of that barrel would be proportionate to the amount of high explosive strapped to the outside of it.
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ali87
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Mon 30 Jan, 2006 04:53 pm
I ALREADY ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION WHEN YOU ASKED IT IN MY FORUM CALLED: "TRINITY:SATAN'S BIGGEST LIE"
BUT I WILL AGAIN:
According to the Christian missionaries:
Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come.
-- Sura 21:98
The logic is clear, Jesus is not God [5:75], millions of Christians are worshiping Jesus today and even the Qur'an acknowledges this [5:119], therefore Jesus will be fuel for the Hell fire [21:98] together with the Christians. This clearly contradicts the verses on Jesus' special place near to Allah [Sura 3:45; 4:158 and others].
Rebuttal
What is logically clear is that the Christian missionaries have not shown any support for their statement that the verse 21:98 indeed refers to Jesus(P). The issues here are:
What does the verse 21:98 actually say?
Why should Jesus(P) go to hell-fire?
Grammatical Considerations & Tafsîr
Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come. [Qur'ân 21:98]
The word "mâ" translated as "what" in verse 21:98 is used to refer to things/objects and seldom would it refer to people. Otherwise, it would be "man" (i.e. who or whom). Thus Jesus is not referred to in that verse. This verse would rather refer to idols worshipped by the pagan Arabs who lived in the time of Prophet Muhammad. More details are available in the section Grammatical considerations & tafsîr.
Why Should Jesus Go To Hell-fire?
It is true that many Christians worship Jesus and that according to the Qur'ân [21:98] whoever worships any deity except God would be the firewood of hell. In this context, what will happen to Jesus? The Christian missionaries say rightfully that Jesus is highly esteemed in Islam:
Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah; [Qur'ân 3:45]
For the sake of debate, the question would be: What was the mischief committed by Jesus for which he would deserve hell? Did he order the Christians to worship him? We, the Muslims, believe he did not:
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. [Qur'ân 5:116-117]
And God Almighty also says:
On no soul doth Allah place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. [...] [Qur'ân 2:286]
and
No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We punish until We had sent a messenger (to give warning). [Qur'ân 17:15]
So, as shown in verses 5:116-117, Jesus will be confronted with those who worship him. After he washes his hands from the Christian polytheism, each one will be accountable for his own deeds because the messenger (Prophet Muhammad) has warned the Christians against their error and they refused to follow him and the consequences of not heeding to the advice (see verse 17:15).
Grammatical Considerations & Tafsîr
Coming back to the original issue, verse 21:98 (saying that what is worshipped besides God will be the firewood of hell) refers to things/objects and not to the people for obvious grammatical reasons. Moreover, as discussed above Jesus is innocent from the Christian worship and thus he cannot be accountable for the Christian misguidance after his ascension to the Heaven. Of course, Jesus is honoured by Islam and there is no contradiction between this fact and the Christian misguidance from which he is totally innocent (according to the Qur'ân too).
Some missionaries go further with this argument by quoting Sîrah concerning the revelation of verse 21:98. We have cross-checked the quotation from as-Sîrah an-Nabawiyyah by Ibn Hishâm which says:
Ibn Ishâq said:
The Apostle of God sat one day, so I have heard, with al-Walîd Ibn al-Mughîrah in the mosque, and an-Nadr Ibn al-Harith came and sat with them in the assembly where some of Quraysh were. So the Apostle spoke but an-Nadr interrupted him. Then the Apostle spoke to him until he silenced him. Then he read to him and to the others: "Verily ye and what ye serve other than God is the fuel of hell. You will come to it. If these had been gods they would not have come to it, but all will be in it everlastingly. There is wailing and there they will not hear".
Ibn Ishâq said:
Then the Apostle of God left and Abdullâh Ibn al-Zibicrâ as-Sahmî came and sat down. al-Walîd said to him: "By God, an-Nadr could not stand up to the (grand)son of cAbdul-Muttalib just now and Muhammad alleged that we and what we worship among these deities of ours [mâ nacbudu min 'âlihatinâ hâdhihî] are fuel for hell". Abdullâh Ibn al-Zibicrâ said: "If I had found him I would have refuted him. Ask Muhammad, "Is everything which is worshipped besides God in hell with those who worship it?' We worship the angels; the Jews worship cUzayr; and the Christians worship Jesus the Son of Mary." Al-Walîd and those with him in the assembly wondered at the words of cAbdullâh Ibn al-Zibicrâ and saw that he had argued convincingly. When the Apostle of God(P) heard of the speech of Ibn al-Zibicrâ, he said: "Everyone who appreciates being worshipped to the exclusion of God will be with those who worship him. They worship only devils and whom they have ordered to be worshipped." So God Almighty revealed concerning that "Those who have received kindness from us in the past will be removed far from it and will not hear its sound and they abide eternally in their heart's desire", i.e., Jesus Son of Mary and cUzayr and those rabbis and monks who have lived in obedience to God, whom the erring people worship as lords beside God. And He revealed concerning their assertion that they worship angels and that they are the daughters of God, "And they say the Merciful has chosen a son, (exalted be He above this); nay, they are but honored slaves, they do not speak before He speaks, and they carry out His commands", as far as the words, "and he of them who says, I am God as well as He, that one we shall repay with Hell. Thus do they repay the sinful ones." [1]
In the quotation above, the pagans of Makkah understood that verse 21:98 concerned them specifically as well as their idols (see how they stress: "what we worship among these deities of ours"- in Arabic: mâ nacbudu min 'âlihatinâ hâdhihi). No mention of deified humans was understood. However, the question of cAbdullâh Ibn al-Zibicrâ - even if it was out of the real scope of the verse - came as a relief for them especially after Prophet Muhammad had silenced Ibn an-Nadr one of their best orators. When the Prophet heard of Abdullâh's objection, he brought an answer to his specific question, i.e., what about the humans that are worshipped? The answer was: if and only if their being worshipped pleased them, then they will meet the same fate as their worshippers - Hell. This saves Jesus, Mary, the Angels and whatever pious people who were later worshipped against their own consent.
Moreover, many Qur'ânic commentaries such as those of al-Tabarî, al-Qurtubî and Ibn Kathîr mention this quotation of Sîrah concerning the following passage of Sûrat al-Zukhruf:
When (Jesus) the son of Mary is held up as an example, behold, thy people raise a clamor thereat (in ridicule)! And they say, "Are our gods best, or he?" This they set forth to thee, only by way of disputation: yea, they are a contentious people. He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favor to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel. And if it were Our Will, We could make angels from amongst you, succeeding each other on the earth. And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way. [Qur'ân 43:57-61]
Very interestingly, al-Qurtubî had the following to say in his tafsîr, while commenting on verse 43:57 :
Ibn cAbbâs said:
This verse refers to the argument between Abdullâh Ibn al-Zibicrâ and the Prophet of God concerning Jesus. The one who held the example [in the verse] is cAbdullâh Ibn al-Zibicrâ while he was still a pagan. This took place when Quraysh reported to him that Muhammad recites: "Verily ye and what ye serve other than God is the fuel of hell." [21:98]. He said: "If I had attended him, I would have replied to him." They asked him: "What would you say?" I would say: "The Christ is worshipped by the Christians and the Jews worship cUzayr. Are they among the firewood of hell?" Then Quraysh wondered at his words and saw that he had argued convincingly and this is the meaning of yasiddûn [raise a clamour in ridicule]. So, God revealed: "Surely (as for) those for whom the good has already gone forth from Us, they shall be kept far off from it;" [21:101]
If Ibn al-Zibicrâ had pondered on verse 21:98, he wouldn't have objected to it because it makes mention of "what ye serve" and not "whom you serve" because the verse speaks about the idols and other things, and not about Jesus nor the angels even if they are worshipped.[2]
Two things stand out from this quotation:
Firstly, the grammatical considerations that we made in the beginning of this article according to which only inanimate things are included in verse 21:98. Al-Qurtubî stands by this opinion when commenting on verse 43:57 as well as verse 21:98.
The scholars say that Jesus, cUzayr and the angels are not meant by verse 21:98 because "mâ" [i.e., "what"] refers to inanimate things and not to people. If the verse pointed to them, it would use "man" [i.e., "who" or "whom"] instead.[3]
As-Sâbûnî in Mukhtasar Tafsîr Ibn Kathîr points out this argument too in the explanation of verse 43:58
Regarding His divine words: "This they set forth to thee, only by way of disputation: yea, they are a contentious people" means: they say so for the sake of argument while they know that their argument is not applicable to this verse since it refers to things only [i.e., in the Arabic language "mâ" is used to refer to things and God Almighty used "mâ" and not "man"] and so it is in His divine speech "Verily ye and what ye serve other than God is the fuel of hell." Moreover, this verse was addressed at Quraysh who were used to worship idols and they did not worship Jesus so that he could be included here. Therefore, their answer is no more than a fake argument in which they do not believe themselves.[4]
Secondly, it is implied that cAbdullâh Ibn al-Zibicrâ, the one who opposed the Prophet about verse 21:98, became a Muslim. The reader may check entry number 4682 in al-Isâbah[5] by Ibn Hajar where we get the confirmation that Ibn al-Zibicrâ converted to Islam and praised the Prophet with his poetry. If he knew that there were a contradiction in the Qur'ân concerning Jesus and whether he would go to hell, would he believe in Muhammad and convert to Islam?
In conclusion, it can be said that there is no difference between the arguments of Abdullâh Ibn al-Zibicrâ when he was a pagan and the Christian missionaries of this day. The verse 21:98 does not refer to Jesus at all and neither does the Qur'ân say that Jesus would be going to hell. Everything points to the fact that the missionaries' argument is hollow and that they are contentious indeed!
This issue is also discussed as a logical fallacy committed by the Quraysh.
The reader would also notice that the best tafsîr of the Qur'ân is Qur'ân itself (notice how 21:98 is explained using 43:57-58), i.e., al-Qur'ân yufassiru bacduhu bacdan (different parts of the Qur'ân explain each other). What is given in a general way in one place is discussed in detail in some other place in the Qur'ân. What is dealt with briefly at one place is expanded in some other place. Such an exegesis involves the use of Context & Internal Relationships.
And Allah knows best!
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neologist
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Mon 30 Jan, 2006 05:23 pm
The bible does not support the idea of an immortal soul or of eternal punishment. Kind of makes me wonder why anyone would say otherwise.
The Arabic word for "forever" that Allah Almighty used in the Noble Quran is "Abada". Abada is derived from "Abad" which means "ever". The addition of the "a" at the end of Abad makes the Arabic word be referring to or connected with something.
So Abada = forever = for-ever.
"ever" is something created by GOD. Almost everything Allah Almighty Created has a limit in time.
Allah Almighty defined "forever" for Paradise as an on going never ending thing, while the "forever" used for Hell had a time limit. Let us look at the following from the Noble Quran:
"Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs: They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: for thy Lord is the (sure) accomplisher of what He planneth. And those who are blessed shall be in the Garden: They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: a gift without break. (The Noble Quran, 11:106-108)"
Notice as brother Abdul Haleem emphasized above that the time limit that Allah Almighty had set for Paradise is endless and is a "gift without break", while the time for Hell is limited to "the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth". It is clear that the time in Hell in the Noble Quran is limited and the time in Paradise never ending.
Notice the assurance of Allah Almighty about the time of Paradise being infinite, while He didn't make the same claim about the time of Hell. In fact, He left the time of Hell open and unclear, which clearly proves that Hell will eventually be empty according to Islam, or to say the least, it will not be infinite in time as Paradise.
(before we start, let me clarify that the word JINN MEANS ANGEL IN ARABIC)
Will Hell eventually be empty? For how long will Allah Almighty will punish some of His creation?
Well, to answer this question, we have to go all the way back to the conversation that took place between Satan and Allah Almighty to see and analyze the intentions of the Almighty GOD in punishing His creation.
Adam was first created on Earth: "Behold, thy Lord said to the Angels: 'I will create a vicegerent on earth.'...(The Noble Quran, 2:34)"
Iblis became Satan: "Behold! We said to the Angels, 'Bow down to Adam': they bowed down except Iblis. He was One of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord....(The Noble Quran, 18:50)"
"It is We Who Created you and gave you shape; then We bade the Angels bow down to Adam, and they bowed down; not so Iblis; he refused to be of those who bow down. (Allah) said: 'What prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee? He said: 'I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay. (Allah) said: 'Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures). He said: 'Give me respite till the day they are raised up. (Allah) said: 'Be thou amongst those who have respite.' He said: 'Because thou hast thrown me out of the Way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy Straight Way: Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt Thou find, in most of them, gratitude (of Thy mercies).' (Allah) said: 'Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee - Hell will I fill with you all. (The Noble Quran, 11-18)"
Iblis was a Jinn who was raised and lived with the Angels. He is a powerful Jinn, and Allah Almighty loved him so much that He treated him like an Angel, until Iblis broke Allah Almighty's Commands and turned into Satan and was expelled with disgrace from the Group of the Angels and from Paradise.
Analysis:
1- We see that Satan was arrogant and dared to break Allah Almighty's direct command to him.
2- Because of this, Allah Almighty became displeased from Satan and threw him out of the group of the Angels and out of Paradise.
3- Satan asked Allah Almighty to give him the opportunity to lead stray people from Mankind to prove to Allah Almighty that "most of Mankind (according to Satan)" are ungrateful to Allah. Allah Almighty granted Satan that opportunity.
4- It appears that Allah Almighty Has a Wisdom that no one in the Universe knows about for creating Good and Evil. It appears that Allah Almighty created Heaven and Hell for a purpose that only Him Knows it.
5- It would certainly not make any sense that because of Satan's wish alone, Allah Almighty made Hell to be the place to burn some of His creation for eternity.
6- It is obvious that Allah Almighty Willed for all of this Good and Bad conflict to occur, and saw Satan as the perfect candidate to start Evil with, since Satan was very highly arrogant.
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Dartagnan
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Mon 30 Jan, 2006 06:04 pm
With the rising number of True Believers in our midst, we may be in for our very own Hundred Years War one of these days. Could get interesting around here.
Real interesting...
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ali87
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Mon 30 Jan, 2006 06:06 pm
So what is the point from believing in GOD then if everyone will end up in Heaven anyway?!
Well, If you visit the article Would you describe Heaven and Hell according to the Islamic doctrine? then you would see that both Heaven and Hell have different levels according to the Noble Quran and the Sayings of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
So to answer the question: First of all, believing in GOD Almighty is not really a choice. It's natural! Even if a person doesn't like the Philosophy of Allah Almighty about Heaven and Hell and the Judgment of Mankind, he still would believe in the existence of Allah Almighty, unless he is an atheist.
Now in regards to the point of believing, Heaven in Islam has 500 levels. The highest level is where the Prophets and the Angles and the most righteous from the Jinns and Mankind reside. They are physically the closest to Allah Almighty, and they have the absolute best of what Heaven can offer! The levels of reward and pleasure get reduced as the levels keep going down until the lowest level of Heaven.
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him taught us that each person's Heaven in the lowest level will be 5 times bigger than the size of planet earth! You can imagine what the Higher levels of Paradise are like.
So, for those who treat the Signs of Allah Almighty with intentional arrogance and stupidity after the Truth was irrefutably made clear to them, I would ask them the following question:
Which would you prefer? To live in the lowest levels of Paradise for Eternity after perhaps serving billions of torturing and very frustrating human-years in Hell for punishment and purification, or to try to win as much higher level as possible in Paradise and to minimize the punishment of Hell?
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ali87
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Mon 30 Jan, 2006 06:08 pm
Doesn't Noble Verse 7:40 clearly state that the disbelievers will never ever leave Hell?
Note: Below you will see that Jesus had talked about and explained Noble Verse 7:40 long before Muhammad did.
Let us look at Noble Verses 7:37-43:
"37. Who is more unjust than one who invents a lie against God or rejects His Signs? For such, their portion appointed must reach them from the Book (of decrees): until, when our messengers (of death) arrive and take their souls, they say: "Where are the things that ye used to invoke besides God?" They will reply, "They have left us in the lurch," And they will bear witness against themselves, that they had rejected God.
38. He will say: "Enter ye in the company of the peoples who passed away before you - men and jinns, - into the Fire." Every time a new people enters, it curses its sister-people (that went before), until they follow each other, all into the Fire. Saith the last about the first: "Our Lord! it is these that misled us: so give them a double penalty in the Fire." He will say: "Doubled for all" : but this ye do not understand.
39. Then the first will say to the last: "See then! No advantage have ye over us; so taste ye of the penalty for all that ye did !"
40. To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin.
41. For them there is Hell, as a couch (below) and folds and folds of covering above: such is Our requital of those who do wrong.
42. But those who believe and work righteousness,- no burden do We place on any soul, but that which it can bear,- they will be Companions of the Garden, therein to dwell (for ever).
43. And We shall remove from their hearts any lurking sense of injury;- beneath them will be rivers flowing;- and they shall say: "Praise be to God, who hath guided us to this (felicity): never could we have found guidance, had it not been for the guidance of God: indeed it was the truth, that the apostles of our Lord brought unto us." And they shall hear the cry: "Behold! the garden before you! Ye have been made its inheritors, for your deeds (of righteousness)." (The Noble Quran, 7:37-43)"
As we can see above, Noble Verse 7:40 clearly states that the disbelievers who will suffer in Hell would never leave Hell and enter Paradise until the Camel can pass through the needle's hole or eye.
Now, if we look at the logic of this Noble Verse from our current human logic, then it would make sense to think that GOD Almighty is telling us that the disbelievers will never leave Hell. We do have sayings such as "this will happen only when you see the cow climb the big wall", which is another way of saying that it is impossible for whatever you're seeking to happen.
But on the other hand, if we actually look closely at the Noble Verse then we would see an actual promise by Allah Almighty to the disbelievers that they will eventually enter Paradise. Maybe the sign that they need to be looking for, or the miracle that they need to be looking forward to see is an actual camel passing through a needle's eye.
After all, it was Allah Almighty that caused for Moses' stick to turn into a real snake. It was Allah Almighty that caused for Jesus to walk on water and defeat all of the laws of gravity. It was Allah Almighty that enabled Moses to split the sea in half with one hit by his stick. It was Allah Almighty that enabled Jesus to bring the dead to life. It was Allah Almighty that caused for Muhammad to visit Paradise with his soul and earthly body without running out of oxygen and have his body and bones get crushed from the pressure and die in the outer space, etc....
Actual miracles that are logically impossible to happen have already happened here on Earth before! Also knowing how straight forward and crystal clear Allah Almighty is in the Noble Quran, and how accurate and precise and formal He is, I don't think that He would rely on giving a clue or an informal saying to tell us that He will never let the disbelievers enter Paradise.
Personally, knowing how Great Allah Almighty's Holy Statements are, I strongly believe that He really didn't mean to say that the disbelievers will never enter Paradise, but rather, He said that He will end Hell when He allows for the camel to pass through the needle's eye or hole.
Heck, I can see this in my own imagination as of right now. So, if I can see it in my imagination, don't you think that GOD Almighty wouldn't be able to make it happen?
If I picture you in three heads instead of one head, don't you think that if GOD Almighty wanted you to have three heads, then He could actually make it a reality? Like I said above in the introduction, when Allah Almighty is determined to accomplish something, all He needs to do is imagine it, and then say to it "Be" and it becomes: "It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is. (The Noble Quran, 19:35)"
If Holly Wood today can shoot a movie clip showing a giant camel passing through a needle's eye with their highly advanced and sophisticated digital technology, then Allah Almighty can certainly make that a reality if it's in His Holy Imagination.
What I am trying to say is that, if it is possible for the camel to pass through the needle's eye in my own imagination, then it is absolutely and unquestionably possible for Allah Almighty to make it happen in reality and end the torture of the disbelievers and open the Gates of Paradise as He promised them in Noble Verse 7:40.
So in Noble Verse 7:40, Allah Almighty did promise to open the Gates of Paradise to the disbelievers when they see a Holy Miracle happen.
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farmerman
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Mon 30 Jan, 2006 06:12 pm
you guys will never ever give me **** for mentioning fossil generic names again, otherwise I shall post this stuff.
Betcha I can get 4.734 angels on the head of a standard dressmakers strait pin. You just skewer them and hang em upside down till they stop squirming
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ali87
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Mon 30 Jan, 2006 06:14 pm
Jesus elaborated on Noble Verse 7:40 before Islam. He actually explained it before Islam!
The following was sent to me by brother Abdul Haleem; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
Osama Akhi:
Compare:
"To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin. (The Noble Quran, 7:40)"
With:
"Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.' When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, 'Who then can be saved?' Jesus looked at them and said, 'With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.' (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 19:23-26)"
Note that Jesus gave THE SAME ANSWER you did, i.e., that this APPEARS HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE, "but with God all things are possible."
This is how the Quran can speak as it does, but the Prophet still say "people who will be scorched by Hell (Fire) as a punishment for sins they have committed, and then Allah will admit them into Paradise by the grant of His Mercy. These people will be called, 'Al-Jahannamiyyiin' (the people of Hell).' " (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, ONENESS, UNIQUENESS OF ALLAH (TAWHEED), Volume 9, Book 93, Number 542)"
Remember, the correct view is that Hell plays a "remedial" role, sort of a "reform school"
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ali87
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Mon 30 Jan, 2006 06:18 pm
Hell is a purifying place:
Hell is a place that will cleanse us from our sins. It is a place to purify us:
"And certainly We know best those who are most worthy of being burned therein. Not one of you but will pass over it (Hell): this is, with thy Lord, a decree which must be accomplished. (The Noble Quran, 19:70-71)"
Narrated Anas: "The Prophet said, 'Some people who will be scorched by Hell (Fire) as a punishment for sins they have committed, and then Allah will admit them into Paradise by the grant of His Mercy. These people will be called, 'Al-Jahannamiyyiin' (the people of Hell).' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, ONENESS, UNIQUENESS OF ALLAH (TAWHEED), Volume 9, Book 93, Number 542)"
So if Hell is a purifying place for our sins, and all of us must pass over it, then it is highly possible that Allah Almighty will use it to purify the sins for even those who are the worst of the creation and then admit them to Heaven.
The following Noble Verse and quote are from brother Cyber Janissary; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:
"[28:84] If any does good, the reward to him is better than his deed; but if any does evil, the doers of evil are only punished (to the extent of) their deeds.
(Yusuf Ali's translation)
If the evildoers are only to be punished to the extent of their deeds, they can't get an infinite punishment in Hell for finite sins."
Let's look at what Allah Almighty said in the Noble Quran:
"God forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with God is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed. (The Noble Quran, 4:48)"
In this Noble Verse, when Allah Almighty Says that He won't forgive shirk (associating partners with Him), He is saying that who ever does shirk will end up in Hell. This Noble Verse certainly shows that any sin or crime that you might commit in life can be forgiven by Allah Almighty. Allah Almighty may not in other words punish you in Hell for it. He might erase it from your bad record. The only sin that is guaranteed that will not be erased from the bad record is shirk.
Doing shirk will end the person in punishment, but not necessarily a never ending one. So when Allah Almighty Says that He won't forgive shirk, He is not saying that it will never get cleansed away from the mushrik (the person who does shirk). Hell is a purifying place and Allah Almighty is the LORD of all Mercy. Shirk does get cleansed away in Hell. A person does get purified in Hell. That's what Hell is for. That's why Muslims will serve some time in Hell before they get admitted to Heaven as clearly shown in Noble Verses 19:70-71 above.
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ali87
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Mon 30 Jan, 2006 06:19 pm
So why didn't Allah Almighty directly Say in the Noble Quran that Hell will eventually be emptied then?
Well He did indirectly say it in the "So what about Hell then? How long will the worst of the creation reside in it?" section above. I believe that the reason why He, the Almighty, didn't DIRECTLY mention it in the Noble Quran is because He probably didn't want Mankind to be counting on serving a time in Hell and then get permitted in Heaven, hence it wouldn't sound strong enough or scary enough to stop them from sinning, and would probably then cause them to be more careless.
He probably also wanted to show the Holy Image of His Punishment and Angry Side to make it clear to Mankind that Hell is not a joke and it is not to be taken carelessly.
Allah Almighty didn't share everything about Him and His future Plans with us. He made this clear in the Noble Quran by Saying: "...of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you...(The Noble Quran, Noble Verse 17:85)"
We also know that He Has a Book that is sitting with Him on His Throne: Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, 'When Allah completed the creation, He wrote in His Book which is with Him on His Throne, 'My Mercy overpowers My Anger.' ' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Beginning of Creation, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 416)"
Maybe He has some Holy Plans written in that Holy Book that we are not aware of. So, it wouldn't be surprising that the steps for emptying Hell from Allah Almighty's Creation is one of His Holy Secrets or Holy Things that He didn't choose to directly share with us.