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It is more reasonable....

 
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 10:48 pm
No wait I cannot do it. Alas I will be destroyed, unless I make an argument based on faith, not only of which I don't have, but is indefensible if I adhere to your initial rational premise. You would have to word your opening gambit in more ambiguous terms in order for me to perhaps have a counter argument.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 10:49 pm
aktorist wrote:
Quote:
And you think this because? You think you are right and I am wrong? It's foolish of me? I don't gamble.


You are gambling by believing in God.


...and you are gambling by not.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 10:51 pm
Doktor S,

I brought it up because you essentially were calling Intrepid a hypocrite. You have made it very clear you think me a non-thinking fool.
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 10:56 pm
Re: It is more reasonable....
Chumly wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
It is more reasonable to believe there is a man hiding in the bushes outside your house than to believe in a deity
-
Can't argue with the facts, it would be fun to try though, so I might on that basis, if you don't mind? I might start by asking you if a watch implies a watch maker.


I would have to say the distinction is in our experience and knowledge of watchmakers and watchmaking.
Anyway..wow..William Paley's argument to design
.... an oldie but a..well..it's an oldie all right.
That argument fails off the blocks, as that the universe exists does not imply a designer, there are no other 'universes' with which to compare, and it rests on an argument for biological complexity that is undermined by darwins natural selection.
Also, ireducable complexity has been utterly smashed by the scientific community at large.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 11:05 pm
Yeah I know I changed my mind as I posted above
Chumly wrote:
Alas I will be destroyed, unless I make an argument based on faith, not only of which I don't have, but is indefensible if I adhere to your initial rational premise. You would have to word your opening gambit in more ambiguous terms in order for me to perhaps have a counter argument.
I like the way Asimov said it
Quote:
The argument from analogy:

A watch implies a watchmaker, say the creationists. If you were to find a beautifully intricate watch in the desert, far from habitation, you would be sure that it had been fashioned by human hands and somehow left it there. It would pass the bounds of credibility that it had simply formed, spontaneously, from the sands of the desert.

By analogy, then, if you consider humanity, life, Earth, and the universe, all infinitely more intricate than a watch, you can believe far less easily that it "just happened." It, too, like the watch, must have been fashioned, but by more-than-human hands?-in short by a divine Creator.

This argument seems unanswerable, and it has been used (even though not often explicitly expressed) ever since the dawn of consciousness. To have explained to prescientific human beings that the wind and the rain and the sun follow the laws of nature and do so blindly and without a guiding would have been utterly unconvincing to them. In fact, it might have well gotten you stoned to death as a blasphemer.

There are many aspects of the universe that still cannot be explained satisfactorily by science; but ignorance only implies ignorance that may someday be conquered. To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.

In short, the complexity of the universe?-and one's inability to explain it in full?-is not in itself an argument for a Creator.
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 11:22 pm
I missed your second post somehow.
Oh well..I was hoping you'd have some sort of new angle on intelligent design. It is very rare hearing someone of intelligence make a case for it!
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aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2006 01:26 pm
Quote:
...and you are gambling by not.


No, I just suspend belief. The absence of belief is not a belief itself.

Say, angel, why don't you believe that there is an invisible fairy on your head knitting invisible socks?
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