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Is there a difference between prayer and hope?

 
 
fishin
 
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Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 10:43 pm
Doktor S wrote:

Hi fishin.
We speak this neat language called english, where words can be used in more than one context. That's why I specified contextual bits bolded
You're objection invokes the fallacy of equivocation. tsk tsk.


Since your comment towards boomer referenced that hope wasn't included in the dictionary definition it can only be a fallacy of equivocation if there was no reference to hope in the listed dictionary definitions.

The "contextual bits bolded" are the parts of the definition YOU chose to recoginze. Your claim that hope doesn't fit in the dictionary is clearly false since it is cited by the dictionary as definition #6. You have your own logiical fallacy by using to narrow a definition. tsk, tsk.
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Kehoe
 
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Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 12:07 am
I'm not really religious, more spiritual & I do pray.
When I do, I do so to God or the Angels or Archangels.

To me, hope is a little different.
I hope for better weather, a good day, happiness, peace ... lots of things.
But hope is more of a wish or want than prayer.

That's how I see it anyway.

I do agree, this is a great thread. Very Happy
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boomerang
 
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Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 02:35 pm
Hi Kehoe and thanks!

I think we are similar in our view of the difference between prayer and hope; the difference being that I don't pray to anything other than to myself.

I suppose some might call my praying, meditation, but it really isn't the same at all. I think of meditation are requiring quiet and calmness and my life rarely has either of those things.
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Phoenix32890
 
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Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 02:47 pm
Quote:
I suppose some might call my praying, meditation, but it really isn't the same at all. I think of meditation are requiring quiet and calmness and my life rarely has either of those things.



boomer- Just recently I wrote of the difference in the way that I perceive prayer vs. meditation. To me, prayer is beseeching a force outside of oneself. Meditation, on the other hand, is calming the mind and allowing the mind to create new ideas, so as to deal with difficulties. One method looks for guidance within oneself; the other, guidance from an outside force.

IMO what you are doing is a form of meditation, a way of accessing the inner reaches of your brain even while frantically conducting the day to day events of your life.
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Doktor S
 
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Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 04:47 pm
fishin' wrote:
Doktor S wrote:

Hi fishin.
We speak this neat language called english, where words can be used in more than one context. That's why I specified contextual bits bolded
You're objection invokes the fallacy of equivocation. tsk tsk.


Since your comment towards boomer referenced that hope wasn't included in the dictionary definition it can only be a fallacy of equivocation if there was no reference to hope in the listed dictionary definitions.

The "contextual bits bolded" are the parts of the definition YOU chose to recognize. Your claim that hope doesn't fit in the dictionary is clearly false since it is cited by the dictionary as definition #6. You have your own logical fallacy by using to narrow a definition. tsk, tsk.

You are either really ignorant, or outright dishonest.
'prayer', as in 'the act of praying' (what we are talking about) is not the same as 'having a prayer' as in the expression, always used in the negative 'we don't have a prayer'. The 'act of praying' is wholly different from 'The slightest chance or hope'
One is an action word, one is not.
This is classic equivocation fallacy..purposeful or otherwise.
So which is it, ignorance or dishonesty?
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George
 
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Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 04:58 pm
This is just my take on it.

For many who pray, hope is a form of prayer.

Not every prayer is a supplication.
Some prayer is the acknowledgement of a sense of awe.
Some prayer is giving thanks.
Some prayer is sorrow for having done something wrong.

And some prayer is an expression of trust, of hope.
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boomerang
 
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Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 07:32 pm
That is an interesting distinction, Phoenix, and one worthy of some thought.

Perhaps not having been brought up in a tradition of calling on God through prayer I've become very flexible in my definition.

Doktor S, in the definition we both posted, prayer is a noun, not an "action word" which would be a verb. (In "The act of praying", act is the verb, not prayer.)

George, I know that you know a bit about prayer. Thank you for stopping in. You have made a very important point that not every prayer is one of supplication.

Do you think that prayer can go beyond that of sorrow for having done something wrong to sorrow at not knowing what is right?

Let me pose this to the group:

Say you are faced with a decision in which there is no clear right and wrong; there are several ways that the situation can be resolved while still being morally right. You have to chose what you think is the BEST decision -- one that will surely affect the lives of several people, not just those involved in the immediate situation. It's a trickle down, ripple out situation but YOU'RE the one who has to make this decision.

The outcome is unknowable and will be forever changing. There will be days that you embrace your decision with passion and days that you regret it with every fibre of your being.

Let's say you spend days, maybe weeks, maybe longer (it could be years) counting "other" hands -- would you consider this counting to be prayer?
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George
 
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Reply Fri 13 Jan, 2006 07:04 am
I'd say that depends on whom you're sharing this internal struggle with.
God? Your imaginary friend? Your self reflecting upon yourself?

(Isn't the capacity for self-reflection amazing? Sometimes when I'm
making a note to myself, I don't know whether to write "you" or "I".)
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Joe Nation
 
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Reply Fri 13 Jan, 2006 09:17 am
George wrote:
Quote:
(Isn't the capacity for self-reflection amazing? Sometimes when I'm
making a note to myself, I don't know whether to write "you" or "I".)


You made me laugh out loud. I do the same thing. It depends, I believe, on whether my inner child is speaking to me or the parental part of my personality.

Joe(I am a common onion with an inner core of garlic)Nation
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lightfoot
 
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Reply Fri 13 Jan, 2006 10:58 pm
You guys reckon "prayer" is hard to define, I reckon the word "love" would have to be the most meaningful-meaningless word in the English language I always pray that it's not used for preying like a wing on a prayer... pray tell me if I'm hopelessly hoping my prayer will be answered.. I wish to know
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male
 
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Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 12:13 pm
Re: Is there a difference between prayer and hope?
Prayer is for much wider purpose then merely hope.

Although it serves as an opportunity for excuse from the God for our sins, it had a role in building discipline in Muslims society.
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Beena
 
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Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2006 11:54 am
Of course there's a difference between prayer and hope. You pray because you lost hope, if you hadn't lost hope, you would not need to pray. So hope is a very big thing you know.
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Intrepid
 
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Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2006 12:01 pm
Prayer is a conversation with God
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Chai
 
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Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2006 12:39 pm
From "Stirring the Soul"

Chronological age appears to predict variations in the prayer life of believers and in their relationship with God. Evidence culled from 131 participants in a recent study of individuals aged 18 to 65 that I led, suggested that as individuals age, they tend to pray more frequently, engaging in the types of prayer known as adoration, confession, supplication, thanksgiving and contemplation. Older respondents report more experiences of positive effect during prayer, including a greater sense of the holy/sacred, and rate their relationship with God higher on several items associated with intimacy


Adoration, confession, supplication, thanksgiving and contemplation...

It seems to me people do more of the supplication type of prayer than any other.

Although I've done that in emergency situations, I always add in the end, "if that's what the plan was anyway"

I personally feel uncomfortable making requests from God. Who am I to ask the creator of the cosmos to help me pass this test? That such small potatos.

The confessional prayer, again, I know when I'm sorry for something. I'm not telling God something he doesn't already know. To me it's a waste of time that could be used for righting a wrong.

That leaves adoration, thanksgiving and contemplation....which to me can be all rolled up into one....

I don't have conversations with God. I don't formulate actual words in my head.

Prayer is considering the source of the food I'm preparing for myself and others.
Prayer is looking at the details of nature, and knowing the earth is the source of it all.
Prayer is being mindful of the limited resources we have, and using them sparingly.
Prayer is realizing we don't own anything really, that is was all created (through a long term process) by a creator. We are just using it and need to treat it with respect, as it isn't ours to abuse.
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lezzles
 
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Reply Sat 21 Jan, 2006 10:38 am
In my book, Chai Tea, prayer includes all those things you mention, but I do formulate them into words, showing thanks, or awe at the beauty of it all, meditation on how I can make things better, etc.

As for supplication, yes I always finish up with "not my will but Thine be done", but I do not have any problem in asking for things. Of course our individual needs are small potatoes. And we don't always get what we want. But to me it's like when my son was little and would come running to me, asking for something - something ridiculous maybe from my point of view but important from his. And if I thought it was right for him to have it and gave it to him - to see how happy it made him made me feel fantastic!

And if he had done something naughty he would come and tell me about it - how could I not forgive him? That trust! That respect! That wanting to please me! So I have not qualms about begging forgiveness from my Lord.

Sometimes I picture something literally earth-shattering, like a volcano, a tidal wave, a cyclone - something so enormous that it is frightening to mentally place myself near it. I imagine I can hear the rock splitting, the wind blowing, the water crashing - just to get some small inkling of "the power of God" and I wonder why God would bother with something as insignificant as me. The funny thing is that every time I do that I do feel comforted and sheltered and I know I am loved.
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Arella Mae
 
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Reply Sat 21 Jan, 2006 10:40 am
lezzles,

That is beautiful. So well stated. Asking for things for myself comes hard for me too. Just for the reason you stated. I am so insignificant compared to so much in the world. But, to God, I am not insignificant at all!
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RexRed
 
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Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2006 08:10 pm
Prayer must be accompanied by "believing", yet hope does not inherently contain faith...
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RexRed
 
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Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2006 08:20 pm
I have added the words in hard brackets.

Heb 11:1
Now faith is the substance [title deed] of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2006 08:39 pm
RexRed wrote:
Prayer must be accompanied by "believing", yet hope does not inherently contain faith...

Wow the planets must be aligned or something.....
I agree with Rex.
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2006 08:43 pm
Hope is like: "Man, I hope I get paid"

Prayer is like: "I'm writing this letter to you to remind you to pay me" and then posting it through the hole in the door where you think maybe the boss lives, even though you've never seen him.
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