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Indifference/ The Most Effective Response to Irrationality

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 10:26 pm
Rant to your heart's content . . . i consider the content of your "contribution" here to exhibit intolerance, bigotry and hypocricy, but above all else, deceit. I don't believe your protestations for a moment.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 10:33 pm
Setanta wrote:
Rant to your heart's content . . . i consider the content of your "contribution" here to exhibit intolerance, bigotry and hypocricy, but above all else, deceit. I don't believe your protestations for a moment.

I forgive you for lying about me. I am happy to drop the matter completely.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 10:34 pm
Are you calling me a liar?
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 10:39 pm
Setanta wrote:
Are you calling me a liar?

The matter is dropped as far as I am concerned. No harm. No foul.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 10:50 pm
I expressed my belief--and i did not lie about that. If you consider me a liar, have the guts to say as much. There certainly is a foul as far as i'm concerned, and the atmospher at this site has been befouled ever since you showed up here.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 11:02 pm
Setanta Wrote:

Quote:
Boom, you're missing a point with that praying for the troops crapola--several in fact. The first is that MOAN is the worst offender in this pushing religion crap. The second is that scriptutral injunction tells them not to pray or worship publicly, but to do so privately. However, the big clincher is that the point has nothing to do with the troops. The point is that this site has a high page rank, and therefore, MOAN gets to put her virutal mug out there, associated with the prayer clap trap, on web pages more likely to be seen by casual, virtual passers-by than at any other site.

That is why it's happening here, precisely because of the success this site enjoys. [/color]She let a real freudian one slip in one of those threads today, when she wrote: "I have a saying in our organization . . ." She is here trolling for recruits and trying to keep herself, personally, before the public. The prayer crap is a sham. It's all about the page rank--just like the creeps in the evolution threads.


Now, deny you said it! Do you see the words "I believe" in there anywhere? I sure as heck don't!
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Treya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 12:18 am
Re: Indifference/ The Most Effective Response to Irrationali
Phoenix32890 wrote:
There has been a lot of talk lately about the change in "climate" in the S&R Forum. People have taking sides, and Apparently A2K is taking on an "us and them" character.

I must admit that I have been guilty of being caught up in discussions that I do not consider even worth discussing. I have no need of defending my beliefs, especially with those who believe that emotional pleadings are a viable substitute for well thought out, considered, arguments.

So why is this happening, and to an extent where people are concerned about the future of A2K? I believe that A2K is a microcosm of the world, and the United States in particular. I think that people, concerned and disgusted as to what is going on in the US vis a vis politics and religion, are creating a backlash that has been focused on individual members of A2K.

It is easier to argue with a few people on an internet forum, than to have to deal with the larger picture that is happening in the US at large. It is direct, and one can vent one's spleen with the click clack of a keyboard, and the touch of a mouse.

I have come to the realization, that when you acknowledge and argue irrationality, with people who refuse to conduct their lives through reason, you are giving irrationality power. It is one thing to argue with people with open minds, who may have differing opinions, and quite another, to argue with those who base their lives on irrationality.

If people who think discuss varying opinions on a subject, one might very well come away with a greater understand of an idea, and may even modify one's own views, based on new learning. It is quite another to discuss, as equals, with those who have, as a philosophy of life, implicit or explicit, forgone reason, for illogic.

So, I am of the opinion that the best counter to irrationality is indifference. I will not waste my time arguing with people who do not care to think.........................who parrot predigested ideas, as if they were absolute truth. I am through with it.


Phoenix thank you for this. I've been thinking about the same thing lately. It has been very frustrating to go into a thread to read up on it and post a reply, only to have go through 3-4 pages of nothing more than people arguing and bashing one another. (I too have been guilty of doing this at times.) Sometimes it seems that people are seeking out others weakness' so they can dive in like a hungry vulture.

And then there's the silly threads started just to prove to the "other side" if you can do it so can we! (saying, "naner naner boo boo" as they stick their tongues out at each other) I'm frustrated tonight. Very frustrated. If you can't tell. It's gotten to the point now where I've pretty much come to the conclusion that if we all can't grow up a little bit here and use this forum for it's intended use, I'll go elsewhere. Please hear me when I say though, I state that not as a threat, or in seeking pity from anyone. I came here to learn and grow as a person. To enrich my knowledge on different topics through listening to what others have to say about it. To see how it is others come to the conclusions they do. People interest me, but this kind of behavior does not. As of right now, that aspect of A2K has been lost for me.
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Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 02:21 am
Lord Ellpus wrote:
Phoenix, I came to the same conclusion this morning, when I first logged on and scrolled down the "at a glance" column. I think that if every non believer just stayed out of there, no matter how tempting, then the majority of those threads will end up as a sneeze fest, with lots of bleesings flying backwards and forwards, and nobody to get mad at, or argue with.

Even THEY would get bored in the end, methinks.

I shall confine my activities to those threads that involve the female anatomy for a while. It will be hard, but I think, with a little bit of effort, I can do it.


Well, I almost lasted 24 hours, which is not bad for a first attempt. In the end, I succumbed to the most exquisite temptation.

I will now redouble my efforts.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 04:44 am
I am kind of intrigued by all this, sort of sociologically, I guess.


For instance, I have a really visceral revulsion at the kind of public call to prayer for troops etc, and the language and manner of positive responses to that.


It is the same as I have to public protestations of patriotism, or teetotalism, or what charitable deeds one might do, or what a good lover one is, I guess, too.


I cannot quite describe the nature of the revulsion, nor quite determine the totality of its source....except a matter of taste, I guess.

But...I had not expected the Americans' responses to be as fierce.


I had a sense that there was more....I dunno, is "holy rollerism" a reasonable description?....in the states...that this kind of group thing was more common? Like fervent stuff about patriotism, and how great America is etc seem a lot more common.


I had expected the MA et al stuff to seem less extreme and mawkish to you guys for this reason.


I am clearly wrong.


Can I ask how common this stuff is in the USA?


Are you guys reacting so strongly BECAUSE it is common, and/or becoming more so?


I might add that, when I was a christian, I would have found it similarly repellant. My sense of faith was that it was a quiet thing, that one discussed when asked, but that one went about it in an inner sort of way. It actually isn't an anti christian per se response.



Set, do you have evidence of your thesis? I know others seem to feel similarly, but, I dunno...
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 04:45 am
Oh, this may be on the wrong thread, I dunno, these damn things are breeding like rabbits.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 06:36 am
Re: Indifference
Reyn wrote:
In my mind, "debating" is an intellectual pastime for folks who can't play chess.

How many times have you seen a final resolution as a result of a debate where one side concedes and sees the other's point of view?

I dont think the point is ever to persuade the other of your view.

You can have an exchange with someone, who's knowledgeable on the same topic as you, end up still disagreeing, but have learnt a lot in the meantime anyway (and not just in looking things up to bash the other over the head with). In a good debate, someone will, in explaining where he is coming from and how he argues his case, after all come up with lots of pieces of information that you hadnt known of before, with sources or materials that might be interesting, and occasionally even with a supportive concept that in itself rounded out your own perspective.

Of course, all of that does imply that posts do more than merely state an opinion or contradict or belittle the other's opinion, but to actually have some meat on 'em in terms of supportive information / explanation. That's mostly missing here, as the fever pitch of partisanity is always too high for people to take the patience / reflection / distance to look things up and mull things over, instead of only reacting immediately to the to and fro.

Mailinglists tend to do a better job than forums, in that regard.
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Intrepid
 
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Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 06:49 am
Reyn wrote:
Quote:
As is your choice. I would find debating boring.....and pointless.


:-)
Hi Reyn,
Do you realize that you are debating right now? ;-)
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 07:01 am
Phoenix
I must commend you on starting a thread like this. I read the first five or six pages earlier, don't have time for the rest. I should have followed your advice before posting much of the recent time.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 07:07 am
Quote:
Of course, all of that does imply that posts do more than merely state an opinion or contradict or belittle the other's opinion, but to actually have some meat on 'em in terms of supportive information / explanation. That's mostly missing here, as the fever pitch of partisanity is always too high for people to take the patience / reflection / distance to look things up and mull things over, instead of only reacting immediately to the to and fro.


nimh- Beautifully said. I think that what we had lately on A2K, is "not enough meat, and too many potatoes". I think that these discussions would be far more valuable to all, even to those on opposites sides of an idea, if we focused more on factual material, rather than the emotional reaction to an issue.

Becoming emotional, and eliciting knee jerk reactions, IMO, does nothing to clarify a situation, but merely muddies the waters. I am here to learn things from other people, that I have not been aware of myself. I have no interest in fighting with people, or as I have characterized this sort of behavior in the past, having "pissing contests".
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 07:13 am
Partisanship, Habibi . . . i feel confident in stating that there is no such word as partisanity . . .

Mailing lists, however, usually appeal to those who want received opinions (not always, certainly, but usually). I read newspapers (mostly online these days, i'm cheap and lazy, after all), but not the op ed, and i certainly don't have any interest in mailings lists. I'm old enough now to be truly pig-headed, and it is highly unlikely that my mind will be changed--it is impossible for anyone to "feed" me an opinion. I view "cirulars" in internet mailing lists which the same suspicion and disdain as i do op ed pieces. However, i enjoy a venue such as this for all of the very good reasons you elucidated, as well as the entertainment value of laughing at and heaping scorn on the loonies.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 12:49 pm
Frank Aspia's e-mail to BBB
I received the following e-mail from Frank Apsia and he gave me permission to share it with you. ---BBB

Thanks, BBB.

I've been doing well...and hope you are also.

I read the thread...and I think the best thing to do is to take Phoenix's advice and just stay indifferent. In any case, I just cannot bring myself to get back to all that arguing. Seems so futile.

Religion, if it has not always been, has degenerated into irrational superstition and fear. You cannot argue rationally with someone who is superstitious....or fearful...at least, not with someone exhibiting the levels of fear and superstition these (otherwise decent folks) do.

I may get involved again...but that is for some future point.

Best regards to you...and everyone at A2K. (Convey any of these thoughts and my best wishes to them.)

Hope ya all have a wonderful, interesting, and satisfying 2006.

Frank
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 12:51 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Reyn wrote:
Quote:
As is your choice. I would find debating boring.....and pointless.


:-)
Hi Reyn,
Do you realize that you are debating right now? ;-)

In my mind at least, the exchange between Set and myself had nothing to do with debating anything of substance.

Just showing how I feel about the subject.

Time for me to make an exit from this thread now, methinks.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 12:54 pm
Setanta- IMO, heaping scorn on what you characterize as "the loonies" is an inefficient and wasteful use of one's time. As far as I am concerned, what's the point of arguing with someone who has pitifully little conception or understanding of the issues that have been postulated?

Would you discuss chemistry on an adult level with a class of kindergartners, and then deride them for exhibiting no understanding of your meaning?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 12:56 pm
Phoenix, how do you feel justified in comparing the religiously fanatical to a kindergarten class? Is that not heaping scorn on the loonies?

Are you feeling irony deficient of late? Perhaps if you eat more liver and leeks . . .
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 01:00 pm
Phoenix,
I do not want to open this up to an argument, but I am just wondering what happened to the indifference?
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