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Everyone believes what is the case.

 
 
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 09:35 pm
"Of those that are, that they are, of those that are not, that they are not."

That means that whatever someone believes is true for them. Suppose for example the fact that we sensate something as hot, while for others, not so much hot. Where is the right and wrong then?

We are instruments put into an environment. Things impinge on us: photons, pressures of sound and touch, and other things. You and I are both input/output instruments. I may respond one way, and you another way.

Of course, everything is right. And because of that, there is actually no such thing as right and wrong. If everything is right, then there is no wrong. And right cannot exist without wrong. And in following this, there is no such thing as the absolute right and wrong.

But there is such a thing as the subjective right and wrong. We are governed by rules. But those rules are just us.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 1,459 • Replies: 11
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 09:36 pm
Shocked No such thing as wrongs and rights? Shocked
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aktorist
 
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Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 09:42 pm
Try to think of human beings as instruments, put into an environment. Things impinge on us. Just as a thermometer registers the temperature, so we respond to the casual impacts: energies and photons and pressures of touch and sound. I, as an instrument, respond to this continuous casual flux one way, and so do you. But if I respond one way, and you a different way, where is truth and falsity? I am an input-output device which gives one output, and you are a similar device that gives another. And isn't that all there is to it? What else does nature contain?
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 09:47 pm
You make us sound like a science experiment.
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aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 09:50 pm
It matters not. It's just it. Something for you to consider. Something which I hold true. Something I want you to hold true.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 10:03 pm
aktorist wrote:
It matters not. It's just it. Something for you to consider. Something which I hold true. Something I want you to hold true.

I appreciate the thought aktorist, but I know what I hold true, and that is God.
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aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 10:05 pm
Know thou then, the matter of faith.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=66730
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 10:21 pm
I tried reading that. Decided not to post in there. I appreciate the link.
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queen annie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 11:26 pm
Re: Everyone believes what is the case.
aktorist wrote:
And in following this, there is no such thing as the absolute right and wrong.

But there is such a thing as the subjective right and wrong. We are governed by rules. But those rules are just us.


I think there is no such thing as 'objective' right and wrong--blanket 'yes' and 'no' for all souls....
What you call 'absolute' above.

I agree with what you said about subjective, too.

As far as 'absolute' right and wrong--I think there is one. But it is internal, and must be cultivated (not enabled), and must not be expected to be applicable to the actions of others, only self.

This absolute is something we are not inherently born with, as far as being able to recognize and exercise it--it is something of a more mystical nature--whereas the other types of right and wrong are purely mundane and are error when applied in the way that they are.
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Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 02:36 am
Re: Everyone believes what is the case.
aktorist wrote:
And in following this, there is no such thing as the absolute right and wrong.


How right you are.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 11:05 am
Re: Everyone believes what is the case.
aktorist wrote:
"Of those that are, that they are, of those that are not, that they are not."

That means that whatever someone believes is true for them. Suppose for example the fact that we sensate something as hot, while for others, not so much hot. Where is the right and wrong then?

This is an ancient paradox, but a solvable one.

A person places his hand in a bucket of ice, and then puts it in a bucket of lukewarm water. To him, the water feels hot. A second person places his hand in an oven, and then puts it in the same bucket of water. To him, the water feels cold. The paradox, presumably, is that the water cannot be both cold and hot at the same time. But that's no paradox at all. What is being felt by the two persons are sensations that are true as to them, although they have different sensations of the same substance. In much the same way that a person who sees an object at a distance sees it as very small, whereas a person standing next to it will see it as very large, a single object can be the subject of numerous sensations.

In short, this is simply a point of view problem. That is not to say, however, that just because everyone has a unique point of view, that everyone is necessarily right in their conclusions drawn from their points of view.

aktorist wrote:
Of course, everything is right. And because of that, there is actually no such thing as right and wrong. If everything is right, then there is no wrong. And right cannot exist without wrong. And in following this, there is no such thing as the absolute right and wrong.

You're wrong.

aktorist wrote:
But there is such a thing as the subjective right and wrong. We are governed by rules. But those rules are just us.

Saying that there is a "subjective right and wrong" is an attempt to state a truth objectively. I'm afraid that your position cannot withstand this fundamental contradiction.
0 Replies
 
Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 04:50 pm
Yes, it is easy to deny objective truth when you're asking whether something is hot or cold. It is much more difficult when you're asking whether the oncoming truck is going to hit you or not, whether there is enough money in your wallet to purchase a loaf of bread, or whether it is advisable to walk down that dark alley at night.
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