Pope to Remarried/ My Way or the Highway!

Forums: Spirituality And Religion
Email this Topic • Print this Page

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-vatican-communion-crackdown.story

Quote:

VATICAN CITY -- Pope John Paul II, cracking down on what he considers serious abuses in his flock, issued a stern reminder Thursday that divorced Roman Catholics who remarry cannot receive communion.

The pontiff also warned Roman Catholics against taking communion in non-Roman Catholic churches -- drawing immediate criticism from some Protestant leaders for what they call a step backward in efforts to achieve Christian unity.

John Paul's warnings were contained in an encyclical, a special letter reserved for matters of extreme importance to the church.

What do you think about this, especially when the encyclical was penned just before Easter?

Topic Stats
Top Replies
Link to this Topic

Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,940 • Replies: 17

No top replies

The reason of the date of issue is the catholic holiday yesterday - Maundy Thursday - and the theme of this Encyclical Letter: "Ecclesia de Eucharistia".

The content itself is nothing new at all.
Regarding the conservative aspects of former Encyclical Letters by this Pope, it's no surprise at all.

(The complete Encyclical is to be found here:

ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA )

0 Replies

Yep, I'm with Walter on this. The newsweek article seems a little hysterical and is trying to upset people. There is nothing new and really, if you read the entire Encyclical, the Pope probably thinks he's being very liberal by discussing the ways that non-RC's can receive the Eucharist. Striving for an Ecumenical doctrine is never going to work if major compromises by the Catholics are expected.

To be in good standing in the Roman Catholic faith there are certain things you must believe, certain things you must do. The Eucharist has always been central to that and a watered-down Eucharistic service will never be acceptable. Why should it? It is freely available in lots of other churches.

0 Replies

Quote:

The pontiff also warned Roman Catholics against taking communion in non-Roman Catholic churches

Piffka- That was the part of the article that bothered me. There are many fine remarried Catholics who want to take Communion- and it looks like the Pope is attempting to close the doors on them!

0 Replies

Phoenix

Well, the Holy Communion is a sacrament in the Catholic Church. And this can only be spent in Catholic churches.

That's where your quotation points at.
Your point below is another one: divorced Catholics can't get the communion in Catholic services (if this is known to a 'lawful' community/priest).

Both has been a long 'tradition' in the Catholic Church.

[Quite interesting, btw, the use of the French 'pontiff' instead of the original (and genuine) Latin 'pontifex'.]

0 Replies

If you will allow an agnostic to get involved...

...the attitude of the pope is a lot closer to the teachings of Jesus on this issue than the teachings of most Protestant churches and denominations. In fact, the Protestant position on divorce and remarriage seems to fly in the face of what Jesus had to say on the subject.

"Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and the woman who divorces her husband and marries another commits adultery." (Mark 10:11ff)

This is fairly specific - and is not subject to the usual Christian defenses on doctrinal issues that arise out of the use of passages from the Old Testament.

This is Jesus speaking in the New Testament.

As for the Eucharist question - well, the Catholic Church definitely feels it is the one true church of Jesus Christ. As far as they are concerned, worshipping via another church is an insult to GOD - a sin - and they are required to condemn it.

The pope is doing what he is required to do by his conscience.

0 Replies

Quote:

from Chapter 3, point 30 -- The Catholic faithful, therefore, while respecting the religious convictions of these separated brethren, must refrain from receiving the communion distributed in their celebrations, so as not to condone an ambiguity about the nature of the Eucharist and, consequently, to fail in their duty to bear clear witness to the truth. This would result in slowing the progress being made towards full visible unity. Similarly, it is unthinkable to substitute for Sunday Mass ecumenical celebrations of the word or services of common prayer with Christians from the aforementioned Ecclesial Communities, or even participation in their own liturgical services. Such celebrations and services, however praiseworthy in certain situations, prepare for the goal of full communion, including Eucharistic communion, but they cannot replace it.

I think this is pretty clear -- Catholic in good standing shouldn't take Eucharist at, say, a Lutheran Church, where they don't believe it is truly the body of Christ.

As for the Catholics who aren't in good standing, which unfortunately include divorced and remarried ones who are otherwise good and exemplary people -- he doesn't mention them, at least that I could see. I assume they are free to take a Eucharist celebration outside a Catholic church, but it won't be a Catholic sacrament.

In order to be a Roman Catholic in good standing you have to sacrifice, sometimes a lot. That's the way of the world. As all trained Catholics know, there are certain life paths, which, if followed, will keep them from full participation in the sacraments. It would be very unusual for someone to take all the sacraments anyway... for example, one is marriage and another is holy orders. (It could happen, but would be very unusual.) Not everybody gets an annointing for the sick, either. Anyone can still go to the mass, the doors aren't barred. But it is not the right church for many people. Nobody said Catholics weren't fussy about their beliefs. They're fussy and they're picky. Lots of things matter.

0 Replies

The 'Evangelistic Church of Germany' (with more members than the Catholic in Germany) said yesterday in a press release that they regret that old known facts are being repeated. But that they didn't expect anything else, as old Catholic standards and beliefs couldn't be changed such easily.
It was poited out that the Evangelistic Church of Ger,many does have the same understanding of the Communion as the Catholics, although they had a different view of this.

(Text in original German: http://www.ekd.de/presse/397_pm75_2003_enzyklika_eucharistie.html)

0 Replies

Walter Hinteler wrote:

It was poited out that the Evangelistic Church of Ger,many does have the same understanding of the Communion as the Catholics, although they had a different view of this.

The Catholics have a different view of it, y'mean?

Roman Catholics have that catch-22 that only a Catholic priest or bishop can offer a true Eucharist, though they seem to be vacillating on whether or not the Eastern Orthodoxies are "Catholic."

0 Replies

Oops

- you are certainly right with your "interpretation" of my response, thanks! (Done while eating a sandwich for supper, if this is accepted as excuse :wink: )

0 Replies

steissd

The discussion here is about an Encylian Letter

Quote:

OF HIS HOLINESS
POPE JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS
PRIESTS AND DEACONS
MEN AND WOMEN
IN THE CONSECRATED LIFE
AND ALL THE LAY FAITHFUL
ON THE EUCHARIST
IN ITS RELATIONSHIP TO THE CHURCH

This has nothing to do with conscience of freedom and/or Catholic countries. It's just for the Catholics.
And it is an which expresses the opinion of a Catholic priest. The highest one, but it's nothing more. (encyclical, from the Greek egkyklios, kyklos meaning a circle)

0 Replies

That is what I mean. If someone considers him/herself a devout Catholic, he should submit the emand of the Pope. Otherwise, maybe try to find him/herself in another religion. If you paid attention, Mr. Hinteler, I started my posting with a following statement:

SteissD wrote:

I think, it is an internal affair of the Roman Catholic Church.

And freedom of conscience was mentioned for the people that disagree: they are free not to be Catholics if they do not accept the irrevocable authority of the Pope.

0 Replies

steissd, i think you'll find many Catholics (as well as members of other religions) who would find it unbelievable to be told they can be told that they can disagree - or that they are free not to be Catholic. That is not what they are taught. It is not what many believe.

0 Replies

I'm not sure where you've found this to be true, Beth. Speaking as a lapsed Catholic, there are a large group in the United States (and another fairly large group in Mexico -- I don't know about Canada) who feel completely free to disagree with Roman doctrine while still feeling comfortable thinking of themselves as Catholic.

It is as though there is respect for the Pope, in the way one might respect their great-grandfather, while believing he is a fuddy-duddy and not in synch with current thought, nor believing that he is "the boss of me."

Witness that this is "news" that divorced & remarried Catholics are "shocked" the Pope hasn't changed his mind about their status. In addition, more the half of the Catholics in the United States feel free to use birth control of all kinds. Many don't go to church with frequency, nor confess on a regular basis, nor tithe. They just don't want to be called Protestants, but they sure have freedom of thought. Some of them may end up as Protestants, but most, I think become non-practicing Catholics.

I've sat around at a number of coffee-doughnut get-togethers after mass and heard people talk. They scoff and roll their eyes at doctrine that they don't believe in, but they like the fellowship and the service so they continue to go.

0 Replies

I think, it's about the same in Germany, Piffka.

0 Replies

Ahhh. I'm not surprised. Wink

0 Replies

Piffka wrote:

I'm not sure where you've found this to be true, Beth. Speaking as a lapsed Catholic, there are a large group in the United States (and another fairly large group in Mexico -- I don't know about Canada) who feel completely free to disagree with Roman doctrine while still feeling comfortable thinking of themselves as Catholic.

It is as though there is respect for the Pope, in the way one might respect their great-grandfather, while believing he is a fuddy-duddy and not in synch with current thought, nor believing that he is "the boss of me."

Witness that this is "news" that divorced & remarried Catholics are "shocked" the Pope hasn't changed his mind about their status. In addition, more the half of the Catholics in the United States feel free to use birth control of all kinds. Many don't go to church with frequency, nor confess on a regular basis, nor tithe. They just don't want to be called Protestants, but they sure have freedom of thought. Some of them may end up as Protestants, but most, I think become non-practicing Catholics.

I've sat around at a number of coffee-doughnut get-togethers after mass and heard people talk. They scoff and roll their eyes at doctrine that they don't believe in, but they like the fellowship and the service so they continue to go.

one can disagree with the pope and still be a devout catholic. justice scalia disagrees with the pope on the death penalty but he's a catholic traditionalist. my mother, an extremely devout catholic, believes in birth control. my father who's almost as devout as my mother, is pro-choice!
for these people and i'd say most catholics at least in the US, catholicism is more agreeable to them than any other alternative but they don't feel it necessary to cede all points to the pontiff.

i've heard of devout remarried catholics. they continue to attend mass regularly but respect the rules of the church and do not receive communion.

0 Replies

Pope to Remarried/ My Way or the Highway!

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know