What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

It doesn't matter how many times you attempt to "point out a context," all you're doing is attempting to claim that left and right, liberal and conservative mean something different now then they did 80 years ago. I see no reason to accept such an assumption. ...

I guess if you do in fact believe left vs right context has not changed in the last 80 years, I have no further comments to you at all. You will just have to believe what you believe.

I would still invite anyone else, especially Walter to provide his context as he understands it now, so that the subject can be intelligently discussed, by having some foundation to discuss it on. Otherwise, I think it is fairly hopeless to continue with any discussion. I thought I made it pretty clear in the first few pages of this thread, but apparently it hasn't yet soaked into everyone.

It's been clear since about page two that this is a hopeless discussion, but it has nothing to do with context. It has to do with your political bigotry, and your willingness to distort anything in order to make a specious claim that you have a "common sense" basis for alleging that all ruthless dictators are "leftists."

It's been clear since about page two that this is a hopeless discussion, but it has nothing to do with context. It has to do with your political bigotry, and your willingness to distort anything in order to make a specious claim that you have a "common sense" basis for alleging that all ruthless dictators are "leftists."

Setanta wrote:

It's been clear since about page two that this is a hopeless discussion, but it has nothing to do with context. It has to do with your political bigotry, and your willingness to distort anything in order to make a specious claim that you have a "common sense" basis for alleging that all ruthless dictators are "leftists."

Yes, indeed.

okie wrote:

I guess if you do in fact believe left vs right context has not changed in the last 80 years, I have no further comments to you at all. You will just have to believe what you believe.

I would still invite anyone else, especially Walter to provide his context as he understands it now, so that the subject can be intelligently discussed, by having some foundation to discuss it on. Otherwise, I think it is fairly hopeless to continue with any discussion. I thought I made it pretty clear in the first few pages of this thread, but apparently it hasn't yet soaked into everyone.

As said, okie, I understand it like anyone who's halfways educated about politics and history.

If there weren't such general agreements it would be impossible e.g. to study history.

Hopeless, however, it is as well, when you discuss a topic with someone and this person totally disregards sources and facts.

An apology would be nice

Since I am from Oklahoma and have not had the profound privilege of studying history at the university as you have, just maybe you could take 5 minutes out of your precious day to provide a link or two that would resolve this argument? Or can you do it? After all, it is only a matter of presenting facts, as you never present an opinion, isn't that right?

Disagree if you must, but at least have the honor of telling the truth about what I have "alleged." I do not believe I have ever alleged that all ruthless dictators are leftists. And I have never alleged that all leftists are ruthless, far far from it, and I believe you attempted to make that accusation a few posts back.

Disagree if you must, but at least have the honor of telling the truth about what I have "alleged." I do not believe I have ever alleged that all ruthless dictators are leftists. And I have never alleged that all leftists are ruthless, far far from it, and I believe you attempted to make that accusation a few posts back. What I have said, and I have pointed this out many many times, is that leftist idealogies provide more fertile ground for ruthless dictators to germinate and to gain power.

What prompted my little study was the current political climate, with many extremists rejecting the norm of past generations, even going so far as leftist liberals calling George Bush a Nazi. It aroused a curiosity to see if history had shown certain personality types to be more prone to becoming ruthless dictators if they gained power. Of course, I think Bush being compared to Hitler is utterly preposterous and in fact I think the opposite political scenario is more likely, and I think my study into the subject strongly supports my view. It is my firm belief that the extreme leftist mindset presents by far the most dangerous fertile ground to produce another ruthless dictator. It is the unhinged personalities with dysfunctional backgrounds, commonly with poor and immoral personal relationships, coupled with a lack of religious faith, then add to this an acquired strong belief that government can and should solve all problems, perhaps even creating some kind of utopia. (emphasis added)

By the way, Okie, Walter has provided one link after the other to support his observations, many of them links to primary source documents. Either you have not read them, or you have ignored them. You've got a lot of gall to ask him to provide you sources at this late date. He's provided dozens of links to primary source documents--but it's all water off a duck's back with you.

You see, the reason I believe, and other people believe, that the Left is a much more dangerous idealogy is the very fact that the Left believe in government forced solutions, collectivism, and by its very definition requires more government power and therefore potential abuse. The same conditions cannot be said about the Right or the conservative idealogy, because by definition it believes in the power, freedom, and responsibility of the individual, not government. Therefore, a fanatic that applies himlelf to Leftist idealogy is a very dangerous individual, and that is where the individuals are classified, that I chose as the examples for this thread. (emphasis added)

Setanta, dictatorships do not fit conservative idealogy, when judged in context with our comparison of liberal and conservative viewpoints in the U.S.

Yes, I am arguing that the leftward leaning policies provide a much more fertile soil for brutal dictatorships to germinate and take hold. A conservative government that believes in less intrusive government as possible, free enterprise, rights, freedoms, and responsibilies of the individual over government, yes, very clearly this system does not provide fertile ground for dictators. Radicals that believe in these conservative values will not take root, because if they actually believe in these principles, they will never attempt to become a dictator. Conversely, leftward leaning radicals do in fact believe that government is the ultimate power and arbitor of justice and economic or environmental prosperity, or whatever issue they can sell to the people. By definition, leftists are big government people, or Statists.

George, I am not claiming that dysfunctional people cannot be conservative in political views, what I am claiming is that dictators must use a leftist leaning ideology to gain power, so that people that truly believe in conservative values are not going to end up as brutal dictators.