What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

@okie,

Quote:

What I have noticed about debating liberals here is that you guys always attack conservatives by attacking our intelligence. You always claim to be intellectually superior in brain power and education.

I think it's highly revealing that you believe this is true. Mostly liberals here demean your arguments, which are not intelligent ones. If you are truly intelligent, you aren't showing it through the quality of your posting.

Quote:

Also, politics or political science is a subject dominated by opinion, not scientific fact, and it does lend itself especially to common sense reasoning, which I think I am using here, very definitely.

History isn't dominated by opinion.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

okie wrote:

I doubt it, not if you think he is a right winger. His religious and political mentors and teachers are Marxists, Jew haters, haters of capitalism, and so forth. If you think Obama is something else, you are mighty naive in my opinion.

My dear okie. I suppose, even some affirmation in lieu of an oath of persons who saw me doing it wouldn't convince you.

So, have your doubts and think that I'm naïve.

Well, I would love for you to enlighten us about Saul Alinsky and Jeremiah Wright, also Black Liberation Theology, explain to us why Obama's spiritual / political mentor, Wright, rails against Jews, white people and how this in no way indicates that Obama is a leftist, as this is apparently what you must believe? Tell us that what Obama wrote in his books, plus what we can read about his associations and track record do not tell us the whole story, that we must somehow go find out what some university professor tells us about who and what Obama is, politically. Tell us why we are apparently not qualified to make judgements about this without some university telling us what we should believe.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

History isn't dominated by opinion.

Cycloptichorn

I am glad for that. We can instead read for ourselves things like Mein Kampf or the Nazi 25 points, without asking Walter or Setanta about what they actually say. We can read them for ourselves and find that out.

That is also what this guy did as well, and he posted this website: "Hitler was a Socialist":
http://jonjayray.tripod.com/hitler.html

3 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
History isn't dominated by opinion.

Cycloptichorn

I am glad for that. We can instead read for ourselves things like Mein Kampf or the Nazi 25 points, without asking Walter or Setanta about what they actually say. We can read them for ourselves and find that out.

That is also what this guy did as well, and he posted this website: "Hitler was a Socialist":
http://jonjayray.tripod.com/hitler.html

I think you are displaying a great example of what happens when you apply amateurish interpretation to complicated subjects, Okie.

Let me put it this way; in the industry you worked in, it took a long time and a lot of study (in and out of the classroom) for you to achieve the competence it took to get the job done. Do you think that some amateur asshole on the internet was as capable of looking at the complex situations you dealt with and coming up with the correct solution?

This is entirely what you are attempting to do here.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Well, okie, political sciences aren't called 'poltical opinions', at least not at the British and German universities where I heart these sciences.

That you pick on my (and others) opinion that Obama is centre/centre right/right according to our European political spectrum - why can't you leave it as such?
I mean, you call the French conservatives "liberals" and "left" (e.g. Jacques Chirac) - probably according to what you think they should be called.

I, on the other side, know, that those two major US-parties are more to the right than there possible pendants here in Europe.

But when we discuss the political spectrum in a specific country - and especially at a different time than today - we really ....

Why do I try to write that again?

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

That is also what this guy did as well, and he posted this website: "Hitler was a Socialist":
http://jonjayray.tripod.com/hitler.html

a) his German seems to be worse than yours, okie
b) he has noted none (zero, nullo, nothing) primary source
c) everyone can have an opinion and if he has $5/month, too, he can create a website.

3 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

If you can read, you would have read that his sources were things like "Mein Kampf," etc. But I suppose that is not a worthy source to try to figure out Hitler? You must instead go to your university for the ultimate source?

2 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

c) everyone can have an opinion and if he has $5/month, too, he can create a website.

Yeah, and you know how much your opinion is worth as well, nothing much, certainly not any more than anyone else's, including Ray's, or mine, or ican's, or Foxfyre's. Sorry, you don't have a monopoly on opinion. I know this is probably a disappointment to you.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

If you can read, you would have read that his sources were things like "Mein Kampf," etc. But I suppose that is not a worthy source to try to figure out Hitler? You must instead go to your university for the ultimate source?

Do you know what the difference between a primary and secondary source is?

For someone who purports to have the judgment to make pronunciations about historical matters, I find the fact that you don't seem to understand this quite surprising.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

okie seems to be composed from the same DNA, and it goes without saying that they are unique~! LOL

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

So is Mein Kampf a primary or secondary source? Enlighten us, professor.

3 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

If you can read, you would have read that his sources were things like "Mein Kampf," etc.

Where, okie, does he give a footnote and/or quote from one single primary source?

okie wrote:

But I suppose that is not a worthy source to try to figure out Hitler? You must instead go to your university for the ultimate source?

Not "my" university, any university library (or other library) can do as well.

However, you'll find most sources about this period in archives (the "Stasi archive is a great source: it will take ages until all the documents are looked through).

And, of course, you really should have a bit more than just basic knowledge (I'm sorry to have to say that, you don't seem to have even that) about that Austrian/German period.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

So is Mein Kampf a primary or secondary source? Enlighten us, professor.

It depends on how good the translation is - unless you are reading it in the original German.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

Jewish leader endorses ‘Mein Kampf’ publication
August 10, 2009

BERLIN (JTA) -- A German Jewish leader has endorsed publication of an annotated edition of Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf."

The Institute for Contemporary History in Munich applied last week for permission to reprint the work, which institute director Horst Möller once called an "effective piece of drivel."

Hitler had left the printing rights to the state of Bavaria, where he wrote "Mein Kampf" while in prison in 1924. Bavaria has banned its publication in Germany and prevented the work elsewhere. The copyright expires in 2015, 70 years after Hitler's death.

Bavarian authorities said they would not lift the ban out of concern that right-wingers could legally use the work. Horst Wolf, spokesman for the state's Ministry of Finance, told reporters that the "prohibition is recognized and highly regarded by Jewish groups, and we mean to keep it that way."

But Stephan Kramer, general secretary of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, told ZDF television on Aug. 5 that it made sense to publish the book, "to prevent neo-Nazis from profiting from it" and to "remove many of its false, persistent myths."

The argument has surfaced frequently of late. In June, the Bavarian minister of science and research said he favored a "decently prepared and well-grounded critical edition" lest "charlatans and neo-Nazis could seize this disgraceful work when Bavaria's rights run out." In 2004, German Jewish author Rafael Seligmann said readers in Germany should see for themselves the seeds of Hitler's genocidal plans.

In 2008, Kramer said the Central Council would gladly help prepare an annotated edition, including for an authorized Internet publication. Unauthorized versions are available now on far-right and Islamic extremist Web sites based outside Germany. Germany bans the public display of Nazi symbols and hate material, including on the Internet.

okie, Are you one of those neo-Nazis who loves to promote this book, and its myths?

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

If a decent translation, and I have no reason to believe english translations are not pretty close, I think its pretty close to primary, cyclops.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Sorry, you don't have a monopoly on opinion. I know this is probably a disappointment to you.

No, but I can read .... German. And have seen and read the original sources. In German.
And know a bit about German history between the Empire ('Kaiserreich') and the Weimar Republic ('Weimarer Republik').

I gave my opinion actually only about where Obama would be in our political spectrum.

Anything else I posted (at least related to the NSDAP and those "magic" 25points - I quoted numerous (mostly primary) sources to confirm my statements.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

okie, Are you one of those neo-Nazis who loves to promote this book, and its myths?

No, I am very anti-nazi, anti-fascist, anti-leftist, anti-socialist. I think Hitler was a very evil man. What do you think?

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

okie, Are you one of those neo-Nazis who loves to promote this book, and its myths?

No, I am very anti-nazi, anti-fascist, anti-leftist, anti-socialist, anti-Marxist. I think Hitler was a very evil man. What do you think? That is one reason I started this thread, to try to look at common denominators, to alert people to things that we can hopefully avoid in the future.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

okie wrote:
Sorry, you don't have a monopoly on opinion. I know this is probably a disappointment to you.

No, but I can read .... German. And have seen and read the original sources. In German.
And know a bit about German history between the Empire ('Kaiserreich') and the Weimar Republic ('Weimarer Republik').

I gave my opinion actually only about where Obama would be in our political spectrum.

Anything else I posted (at least related to the NSDAP and those "magic" 25points - I quoted numerous (mostly primary) sources to confirm my statements.

And your opinion about where Obama is on the your spectrum pretty much proves your spectrum is incorrect and invalid to use here, doesn't it, Walter? If you cannot get something that basic about Obama correct, I think that says something about your reasoning here.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

So is Mein Kampf a primary or secondary source? Enlighten us, professor.

It would be a primary source if you had the the original manuscript.

I suppose, you still could use it as [primary] source, when you quote from it, quoting, of course, with the number of the edition and the relevant page.
But unfortunately, you didn't respond when I asked about it (if you read in German, or what translation you used if you didn't).

1 Reply

What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

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