20
   

What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

 
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 11:30 pm
Beautiful, Okie and exactly correct. I skewered Setanta with this idea several years ago and he has been pouting ever since. If I may extend this idea a bit further, it would appear that even FDR could be labelled a left winger

Here is what FDR said:

"What we were doing in this country were some of the things that were being done in Russia and even some of the things that were being done under Hitler in Germany, But we were doing them in an orderly way". There was an enormous bipartisan consensus that the Depression required dictatorial and fascistic policies to defeat it.

********************************************************

Is this the same rationale that Obuma is using? Will he become the man on horseback to lead us to the promised land of full employment and a rising GDP with a budget under control? How can he do this?
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 11:47 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

And therein is the problem in the 'left'/'right' discussion I came in during. Those designations means something different in Europe than they do here in America just as modern American social liberalism is not the same animal as classical liberalism or just plain 'liberalism' in most of Europe.

The obvious reason this is such a pivotal point on this thread in regard to how common it is to have right wing dictators vs left wing dictators, is the fact that many of the so-called right wing dictators were known as fascists or some variation thereof, when in reality they were not right wingers at all, but instead a variation of leftist.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 12:01 am
@genoves,
genoves wrote:

Beautiful, Okie and exactly correct. I skewered Setanta with this idea several years ago and he has been pouting ever since. If I may extend this idea a bit further, it would appear that even FDR could be labelled a left winger

Here is what FDR said:

"What we were doing in this country were some of the things that were being done in Russia and even some of the things that were being done under Hitler in Germany, But we were doing them in an orderly way". There was an enormous bipartisan consensus that the Depression required dictatorial and fascistic policies to defeat it.

********************************************************

Is this the same rationale that Obuma is using? Will he become the man on horseback to lead us to the promised land of full employment and a rising GDP with a budget under control? How can he do this?

There is no doubt whatsoever that FDR was a liberal or left leaning politician, in context with American left vs right, and I think this is a pretty well accepted fact. Most liberal Democrats have FDR as their hero, the man that engineered the New Deal, Social Security, etc. Although many believe the war ended the depression, and even though high unemployment extended years into his presidency, he is still somehow credited with ending the depression with his New Deal, this impression common among FDR Democrats and followers. This despite his own Secretary of the Treasury, Morgentheau saying all the spending did not work, and evidence arguing otherwise.

Agreed, Obama apparently believes in his brand of a New Deal spending spree, expanding government in new and varied ways.

If FDR was on the left, it would be silly to suggest Hitler was a conservative politician in context of American standard of left vs right, but apparently there are those still maintaining that right here.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 11:17 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
Rating the worst dictators in history would be a debate and a subject by itself. I've selected the following: Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, Fidel Castro, and Saddam Hussein. There are plenty more to choose from. Hussein and Castro were included even though they are probably not be as bad as some others, but I think that they qualify for the list because they are bad guys, and dictators, and they are fresh in our minds as being part of current history.

Okie, I too am interested in this thread. Thanks for starting it.

Given enough time, Hugo Chavez will also belong on your "worst dictators in history" roster.
http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79n/
George Orwell in NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR, Part III, Chapter III, wrote:
The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you [Winston] begin to understand me?

Unless quickly removed, Barack Obama will belong on your roster, too.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 02:15 pm
@ican711nm,
Some traffic wardens are like that ican.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 03:24 pm
@genoves,
Quote:
I do hope that you recognize that CI is trying to intimidate you


It's powder-puff stuff on here genoves and a mere 10 pages as well.

You should see what I have faced down on the threads where a handful of posters are trying to bring atheism into American schools. And for 0ver 4 years. And without much help from you conservatives.

I welcome the ignorant insults. It exposes them in the eyes of intelligent people and they are the only ones who will be influential. What's the point in winning a war of words in the eyes of people with no influence.

Raking over old coals is nothing stuff. Mr Obama is no inchoate dictator. The future is more important than the past.

I've seen some of you conservatives cosying up to the members of that Claque if they have flattered you a bit. Anybody can fight old battles on paper. They seek the dictatorship of science which is, axiomatically, ruthless.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 04:50 pm
@spendius,
Some traffic wardens are avoidable without being removed from office. Obama is not avoidable until removed from office.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 05:18 pm
@ican711nm,
But avoiding them is recognising their control over you.

Do you really think that there's the slightest possibilty of removing Mr Obama from office before 2012. Or even before 2016 when it is done for you by your inability to avoid the constitution. "Traffic warden" was a metaphor.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 05:23 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
I do hope that you recognize that CI is trying to intimidate you

I welcome the ignorant insults. It exposes them in the eyes of intelligent people and they are the only ones who will be influential. What's the point in winning a war of words in the eyes of people with no influence.

Agreed.

Quote:
Raking over old coals is nothing stuff. Mr Obama is no inchoate dictator. The future is more important than the past.

People that can think critically will make a correlation, spendius, and just alerting or changing the mind of one person might lead to more, so I think history is worth raking around in. I agree it seems like a fruitless pursuit, but at least it beats wasting time in other ways.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 06:22 pm
@okie,
Quote:
People that can think critically

fascinating.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 07:57 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
People that can think critically will make a correlation....

People who don't (or can't) think critically find correlations that are completely meaningless. That's how we get superstitions, in fact.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 08:01 pm
@DrewDad,
That's how Obama got elected
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 08:07 pm
@H2O MAN,
Yeah. By black people. Who are going to take all of your stuff. And your wife.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 08:20 pm
@DrewDad,


Why do you hate black people?
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 09:36 am
@H2O MAN,
why do you hate people?
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 10:24 am

Quote:
What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?


Three ingredients:
The press and The candidate created fear in The fearful & naive dummasses.
These dumbmasses were drawn to the charismatic radical named Obama, our first dictator if we don't resist.

http://scattershooting.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/change-hitler-obama-lenin.jpg
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 05:11 pm
@spendius,
YES!
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 07:23 am
@dyslexia,
H2OMan doesn't hate people. He's just scared shitless.
Quote:

The press and The candidate created fear in The fearful & naive dummasses.


And getting more scared by the minute it seems.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 07:36 am
@parados,


Scared of what?
What do I have to fear?
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 07:37 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:



Do you really think that there's the slightest possibilty of removing Mr Obama from office before 2012.


Yes, the possibility does exist.
0 Replies
 
 

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