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Thu 29 Dec, 2005 10:25 pm
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3: 16
This is a verse Christans band about quite abit, and in all the years of talking to Christians none of them have given me an answer as to what they mean by 'begotten.'
It got me thinkng how does a god begget a child ?
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heres some info. to think about before answering aswell as the verse above:
To beget
1. To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur; produce: Violence begets more violence.
Main Entry: beget
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: create
Synonyms: afford, breed, bring, bring about, cause, effect, engender, father, generate, get, multiply, occasion, procreate, produce, progenerate, propagate, reproduce, result in, sire
Antonyms: destroy, extinguish, kill
To sire
1 A father.
2 The male parent of an animal, especially a domesticated mammal such as a horse.
3 Archaic. A male ancestor; a forefather.
Main Entry: breed
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: generate
Synonyms: bear, beget, bring about, bring forth, cause, create, deliver, engender, father, give birth, give rise, hatch, impregnate, induce, make, multiply, originate, procreate, produce, progenerate, propagate, reproduce, sire
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So answers please to the queston:
How exactly (spare no details) did the Christian God begget Jesus his son?????
By the way dont try to give me the story about the holy ghost overshadowing Mary and thats how Mary was impregnated, I am not asking about how the virgin birth occured I am asking how the Christian God beggot Jesus as the Bible tells us.
Candle-lit dinner, wine & roses.
Hi steve. I guess I am missing something. I don't understand what you don't get here but I am doing my best to understand.
God (the Holy Spirit) caused Mary to conceive. Therefore, God is the father of Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God and the son of Mary. Divine Father and human mother.
So, take your pick. He sired Jesus. He was Jesus' father.
Is that what you mean?
Momma Angel wrote:Hi steve. I guess I am missing something. I don't understand what you don't get here but I am doing my best to understand.
God (the Holy Spirit) caused Mary to conceive. Therefore, God is the father of Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God and the son of Mary. Divine Father and human mother.
So, take your pick. He sired Jesus. He was Jesus' father.
Is that what you mean?
ahh interestin MA so you are saying Jesus came into existence when he was born from Mary?? In which case he did not exist before then.??
and Imur......behave
Steve,
I never said that. That wasn't your question.
He became flesh when He was born but He existed long before that.
stevewonder v Momma Angel
the blind leading the blind?
You are trying to put English words and meanings into something that will make sense to you. You have to go to the Greek from which it was translated to get the actual meanings.
You are looking for some kind of answer that nobody can give you. None of us was there. Jesus was born of Mary. God caused the conception... If you want details, you won't find them.
If you believe it fine. If you don't believe it fine. That is your perogative. God sent His son into the world for a purpose. Christians accept this in faith.
I think someone is just trying to prove a point....they like to argue.
The doctrine of the Triune God appears nowhere in the canon of The Bible. In fact, the earliest mention of a trinitarian concept in Christian writings appears late in the 2cd Century, as a reference in Theophilus of Alexandria's only surviving work, Ad Autolychum, described by Eusebius as among the "elementary works". Theophilus wrote specifically of " ... "the Trinity of God (Father), His Word (Son) and His Wisdom (Holy Spirit)". Of course, as Theophilus was essentially writing a Christian Apologetic, and refuting heresies - notably those of Marcion and Hermogenes - it may be assumed the concept predated Theophilus, but it was he who first wrote of it, using the word "Trias", in Latin "Trinitas" as written later in the 2cnd Century by Tertullian. The word almost universally appears in conjunction with the word "Homoousion", or "Being of one substance". By the latter 3rd Century the concept was in general use, appearing frequently in Origen, Gregory Thaumaturgis, and Eusebius among other doctors and fathers of The Church. In the 4th Century, it essentially was codified into doctrine via the Athanasian Creed (which apparently was not - could not have been - written by Athanasius, but that's another story). The concept however played well with Constantine's visions for the role of The Church and The Empire, and it was set in the stone of dogma at Nicea. That within the broqader Christian Community it was not a universally accepted concept is evident in the many heresies which grew from rejection of and in opposition to the notion. With sword, hammer, gallows, cross, torch and pyre, the minions of Constantine saw to the triumph of the loving word of the benevolent, compassionate, One True (and Triune) God of their creed.
Intrepid wrote:You are trying to put English words and meanings into something that will make sense to you. You have to go to the Greek from which it was translated to get the actual meanings.
You are looking for some kind of answer that nobody can give you. None of us was there. Jesus was born of Mary. God caused the conception... If you want details, you won't find them.
If you believe it fine. If you don't believe it fine. That is your perogative. God sent His son into the world for a purpose. Christians accept this in faith.
If we go to the Greek language to try to get the "right" translations, we will find the same meanings for these words as in English. Why? Because these definitions are universal; they apply to every language.
timberlandko wrote:The doctrine of the Triune God appears nowhere in the canon of The Bible. . .
Thank you, timber. May I quote you?
Oh, I just did.
stevewonder wrote:It got me thinkng how does a god begget a child ?
I assume you mean 'beget'. As for Jesus' prehuman existence and how he might have been 'begotten', read proverbs chapter 8 and see if that gives you any insight. (Pay particular attention to vss. 22-31.)
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