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Do you believe New“National Strategy for Victory in Iraq”

 
 
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 07:26 pm
Do you believe the strategy is

1) New
2) is a Strategy
3) will lead to victory (which could only imply mission is not accomplished and we are losing)

_______________________________________________________

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-images/upload/thumb-nsvi1.jpg



Rapid Response: Deconstructing the "National Strategy for Victory in Iraq"

After two-and-a-half years and 2,110 U.S. troop fatalities, the Bush administration released what it calls a "National Strategy for Victory in Iraq" (NSVI). The problem is, it's not a new strategy for success in Iraq; it's a public relations document. The strategy describes what has transpired in Iraq to date as a resounding success and stubbornly refuses to establish any standards for accountability. It dismisses serious problems such as the dramatic increase in bombings as "metrics that the terrorists and insurgents want the world to use." Americans understand it's time for a new course in Iraq. Unfortunately, this document is little more than an extended justification for a President "determined to stay his course."

NO STANDARDS FOR ACCOUNTABILITY: Two weeks ago, the Senate overwhelmingly endorsed an amendment calling on the Bush administration to provide a "schedule" for meeting U.S. objectives in Iraq, "information regarding variables that could alter that schedule, and the reasons for any subsequent changes to that schedule." The NSVI completely rejects this call. "We will not put a date certain on when each stage of success will be reached," the document states in bold and italicized print, "because the timing of success depends upon meeting certain conditions, not arbitrary timetables." The only time frames proposed for achieving U.S. objectives are virtually meaningless phrases: "short term," "medium term," and "longer term." The goals for these time frames are equally ambiguous; the so-called "short term" goals, for instance, are listed as "making steady progress in fighting terrorists, meeting political milestones, building democratic institutions, and standing up security forces."

IGNORING KEY CHALLENGES: When decorated veteran Rep. Jack Murtha (D-PA) presented his Iraq plan two weeks ago, he offered two primary reasons for supporting redeployment. One was the heavy burden the Iraq war has placed on the U.S. military and its recruitment and retention efforts, many of which are at historically low levels. The second was the shifting sentiments of the Iraqi population; Murtha cited a recent poll that found "over 80 percent of Iraqis are strongly opposed to the presence of coalition troops, and about 45 percent of the Iraqi population believe attacks against American troops are justified." The NSVI ignores both of these fundamental facts. Virtually nothing is said about the well-being of our military, unquestionably a vital element in any strategy for success. Moreover, it disregards the latest Iraqi public opinion data, stating falsely that violence "has been discredited within and outside Iraq."

DISMISSING INCREASED VIOLENCE: The NSVI emphasizes that U.S. officials "track numerous indicators to map the progress of our strategy," and offers websites where some of these reports are publicly available. "Americans can read and assess these reports to get a better sense of what is being done in Iraq and the progress being made on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis." The problem is that these reports have on numerous occasions been found to be inaccurate, or to overstate progress using incomplete or misleading data. Additionally, the document states (in bold print) that these Pentagon statistics "have more strategic significance than the metrics that the terrorists and insurgents want the world to use as a measure of progress or failure: number of bombings." Surely one needs a wide assortment of statistics to get the full picture from Iraq. But considering the No. 1 "Strategic Pillar" listed in the NSVI is to "Defeat the Terrorists and Neutralize the Insurgency," it is simply not true to claim that the number of insurgent bombings (now at an all-time high) is irrelevant as a measure of progress.

REPLACING METRICS WITH EMPTY PHRASES: In late-September, Gen. George Casey Jr., who oversees U.S. forces in Iraq, revealed that "[t]he number of Iraqi army battalions that can fight insurgents without U.S. and coalition help has dropped from three to one." That meant only 700 Iraq Security forces were rated as "Level 1″ on the four point scale created by the U.S. military. Instead of addressing the problem, they've abandoned the ratings system. The NSVI notes that "now more than 120 Iraqi army and police battalions are in the fight." (The term "in the fight," used six times in the document, is not defined.) The strategy also notes: "As of November 2005, there were more than 212,000 trained and equipped Iraqi Security Forces, compared with 96,000 in September of last year." It fails to mention that in Feburary 2004, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld claimed there were 210,000 members of the Iraqi Security Forces and a "thousand more that are currently in training."

THE NATIONAL PAT ON THE BACK: The NSIV is less of a strategy and more of a pat on the back. Much of the 35 pages is devoted to describing how well things are going. Oddly, the strategy declares on Page 5 that "Our Strategy Is Working." On the economic front we are told, "Our restore, reform, build, strategy is achieving results." On the political front: "Our Isolate, Engage, and Build strategy is working." On the security front: "Our clear, hold, and build strategy is working." With everything going so well, the NSVI reminds us that "change is coming to the region…From Kuwait to Morocco, Jordan, and Egypt, there are stirrings of political pluralism, often for the first time in generations."

from : thinkprogress.org
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,079 • Replies: 25
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Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 07:34 pm
It's the same old BS from the same old BSer.
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 07:35 pm
LOL.
thanks S.P.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 05:58 am
So, you like automatically assume that someone who "doesn't know" (which might include reserving judgment in the spirit of fairmindedness) is confused? Will you ever post anything which is free of implicit or explicit bias?
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 03:52 pm
LOL

To be honest that was my reaction intial, when I first saw the article I couldnt figure out what the heck the document was supposed to be telling us.......have we won, are we winning? are we losing? didnt we have a strategy previously..........so the third option kinda encapsulates the 'dont know but because its all so confusing' opton.

Dont get worked up Sent. anyone want a fourth and fifth option may post........thats the nature of the forum.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 04:05 pm
It always seems so silly when you disagree with someone and they assume that means you're "worked up" or "angry" . . .
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 04:08 pm
You ever think maybe its the way you approach things; the way you say them?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 04:12 pm
No, because thin-skinned people of every description and hue react that way to criticism, whether it is i who post or someone else . . . thought you'd lug your grudge over here, huh?
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 04:27 pm
so Sent are you gonna talk about the post or analyze peeps???
what do you think of the document??
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 04:43 pm
Setanta wrote:
No, because thin-skinned people of every description and hue react that way to criticism, whether it is i who post or someone else . . . thought you'd lug your grudge over here, huh?



the plank in your own eye, my man- the plank in your own eye...
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 05:06 pm
You're the one who showed up with the snotty remark . . . and you may be assured that i'm not your man . . .
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 06:46 pm
Setanta wrote:
You're the one who showed up with the snotty remark . . . and you may be assured that i'm not your man . . .


You're amazing, Setanta - you go from thread to thread making snotty, ascerbic remarks, but can find fault with everyone but yourself. I know from past historywith you that once you consider yourself slighted, there is nothing that will placate you but near complete acquiescence - you can't see past your own formidable self-opinion. I haven't done anything to you that you couldn't get over if you weren't so thick headed and thin skinned.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 06:51 pm
How very silly of you--you show up here, making no comment on the topic of the thread, but immediately commenting on my posts. You expect to get a free ride, not to have me reply to your snottiness, your acerbity? Get real . . .
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 07:08 pm
guys how about talking about the topic in question???

or maybe we should give you thread just so you can thrash it out??
LOL
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 10:42 pm
Sorry stevie - what was the subject? Just kidding...

I haven't been able to bring myself to read the joke of a "plan" yet...

Can we safely infer from this late introduction of a "strategy" paper, that there wasn't a strategy up until now?
0 Replies
 
eatsroad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 12:03 am
We have considered you're post along with two decades of Middle East history actually a little more than two decades so you find these truths to be confused. Well than the confused should not sound hypocritical understand these matters I have for some time you think Iraqis are not changing for the better one example listed though there are more the resent raid on the Iraqi prison Iraqis holding and beating by way of whips there prisonor.fact if it were three years ago those men would have been executed along with wife's sons and daughters. Fact in this great nation it was acceptable for fathers to use a strap or switch on their children it has for some time been discouraged. But was a misguided attempt or was it? You want to save my brave sons and daughters in service.
Suggestion take ten 747s fill them with all you folks that want them out. Fly to Baghdad oh please take ms she an and intro duce her to the nation that killed her boy and you should be able to accommodate 3000 more and because you don't believe there is a need for us military in Iraqi them you venture out to all the little towns and citys.with no us military escort. And go to those places and open your arms for those hugs you say they were made for, your faith should bring you back safely these are our thoughts and solution a solution something I don't hear much from democratic leaders. Well educated well feed well housed secure in there being but can't come up with a plan.this war would be over if Americans were what there grand parents were Aliquis )* * Pity and shame the fool who
says they are glad they are not like there American Grandparents * How is it most americans hold criminals thives muggers dealers gamblers..to a higher degree of accountability than thouse who have murdered destroyed private propert and public prorety destroyed your friends and nieghbors in america ..the gin has clouded your minds that you see but not the truth..go make peace if you belive that..my sons and daughters in service have my blessings though i am not well educated well fead or housed i don,t know fine linens....I Do know FREEDOM.....And From Whence it Came And The Debt Therin i grew up with soft spoken well mannered considerit kind and slow to anger and quick to forgive family and there courage is mine all they where i am....i seek out the same ..but still live at peace with the47% ill will loud unkind smug pieous falsepiety i live in peace with them as alot of us do when you gona come over American charter is disintergrating..and you named one great demond..confused don.t understand left to there leaders to interpept for them because of that 47% 30% don,t have the IQ and wont read or understand its easyer to listen to talking heads and agree with there leaders when they play the blame cause they want but were never taught values ..there owed just because...there leaders tell them that..well you have a good day a merry christmas and if you don,t know the truth..than at least be of good will towards your fellow...never know that my be god your talking to....
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 05:18 pm
eatsroad wrote:
We have considered you're post along with two decades of Middle East history actually a little more than two decades so you find these truths to be confused. Well than the confused should not sound hypocritical understand these matters I have for some time you think Iraqis are not changing for the better one example listed though there are more the resent raid on the Iraqi prison Iraqis holding and beating by way of whips there prisonor.fact if it were three years ago those men would have been executed along with wife's sons and daughters. Fact in this great nation it was acceptable for fathers to use a strap or switch on their children it has for some time been discouraged. But was a misguided attempt or was it? You want to save my brave sons and daughters in service.
Suggestion take ten 747s fill them with all you folks that want them out. Fly to Baghdad oh please take ms she an and intro duce her to the nation that killed her boy and you should be able to accommodate 3000 more and because you don't believe there is a need for us military in Iraqi them you venture out to all the little towns and citys.with no us military escort. And go to those places and open your arms for those hugs you say they were made for, your faith should bring you back safely these are our thoughts and solution a solution something I don't hear much from democratic leaders. Well educated well feed well housed secure in there being but can't come up with a plan.this war would be over if Americans were what there grand parents were Aliquis )* * Pity and shame the fool who
says they are glad they are not like there American Grandparents * How is it most americans hold criminals thives muggers dealers gamblers..to a higher degree of accountability than thouse who have murdered destroyed private propert and public prorety destroyed your friends and nieghbors in america ..the gin has clouded your minds that you see but not the truth..go make peace if you belive that..my sons and daughters in service have my blessings though i am not well educated well fead or housed i don,t know fine linens....I Do know FREEDOM.....And From Whence it Came And The Debt Therin i grew up with soft spoken well mannered considerit kind and slow to anger and quick to forgive family and there courage is mine all they where i am....i seek out the same ..but still live at peace with the47% ill will loud unkind smug pieous falsepiety i live in peace with them as alot of us do when you gona come over American charter is disintergrating..and you named one great demond..confused don.t understand left to there leaders to interpept for them because of that 47% 30% don,t have the IQ and wont read or understand its easyer to listen to talking heads and agree with there leaders when they play the blame cause they want but were never taught values ..there owed just because...there leaders tell them that..well you have a good day a merry christmas and if you don,t know the truth..than at least be of good will towards your fellow...never know that my be god your talking to....



.........er.........quite clearly you have literally 'just hatched'..does anyone know what this dude is saying could you kinda talk english..........no offence....... Question
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 05:32 am
It's the Borg.
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 04:09 pm
goodfielder wrote:
It's the Borg.


I think you could be right......lol
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 03:03 pm
0 Replies
 
 

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