Dinosaurs 30,000 feet below the ground??

Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 07:03 am

At 30,000 feet down, where were the dinosaurs?
Posted: November 29, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Developments in deep-drilling for natural gas present serious challenges to those who still maintain "Fossil-Fuel" theories as to the origin of complex hydrocarbon fuels.

The Western world's record for deep-well natural-gas exploration and production is held by the GHK Company in Oklahoma. From 1972 through 1974, the company engineered and drilled two Oklahoma natural-gas commercial wells at depths greater than 30,000 feet (approximately 5.7 miles) - the No. 1-27 Bertha Rogers well (total depth 31,441 feet) and the No. 1-28 E.R. Baden well, both located in the Anadarko Basin, and east-west trending basin in West-Central Oklahoma.

Since the company's founding, GHK reports drilling and operating 193 wells, the majority of which are below 15,000 feet, without experiencing a blowout. GHK's success ratio for all drilling operations, including wildcat exploratory drilling, from 1995 to 2005 has been 82 percent.

A study conducted by Mark Snead, Ph.D., the director of the Center for Applied Economic Research at the Spears School of Business at the University of Oklahoma (at Stillwater, Okla.), documents that commercially successful deep-well drilling for natural gas in Oklahoma has been proven beyond a doubt by experience in Oklahoma:

Oklahoma has long played an important role in the development of deep drilling. The first hole drilled below 30,000 feet for commercial production purposes was completed in Beckham County in 1972 ...

The Anadarko Basin has historically been one of the most prolific natural gas producing regions in the United States and is the location of most of the deep wells in Oklahoma. According to the U.S. Geological Survey, 20 percent of the holes drilled deeper than 15,000 feet prior to 1991 are located in the Anadarko Basin, exceeding the number of deep wells in all drilling regions in the U.S. other than the Gulf of Mexico in the period. Through 1998, 19 of the 52 existing ultra deep wells below 25,000 feet were drilled in the Anadarko Basin.

Through 2002, the Potential Gas Committee reports that a total of 1,221 producing deep wells were completed in Oklahoma at an average depth of 17,584 feet, with 775 of these wells currently active.

The success with deep-drilling of natural-gas resources has been experienced across the United States:

The overall success rate of deep wells has been remarkably good. In a sample of 20,715 deep wells drilled in the U.S. through December 1998, 11,522 (56 percent) are classified as producing gas and/or oil wells, with gas wells comprising nearly 75 percent of producing wells. Of the 1,676 wells exceeding 20,000 feet, 974 (58 percent) are producing wells of which 847 are gas wells.

Dr. Snead reported that important technological advances have facilitated the ultra-deep drilling of natural gas wells. The average time to reach a depth of 17,000 feet for two East Texas deep wells drilled in the same structure reduced from 170 days to 70 days in the 17 years between 1985 and 2002. Moreover, advances in computer technology have produced breakthroughs in reservoir modeling that "enable better estimates of the size and location of recoverable deposits."

Many "Peak-Production" theorists appear today to be ready to abandon the "Fossil-Fuel" theory of oil's origin, as long as they are yet able to argue that we are going to run out of hydrocarbon fuels in just a few years from now. Still, the common wisdom remains that natural gas, like oil, is a "fossil fuel." For those who have any doubt that the "Fossil-Fuel" theory is the politically correct version of the origin of natural gas, the Energy Information Agency's "Energy for Kids" page explains how millions of years ago the remains of plants and animals decayed into organic material that became trapped in rocks until pressure and heat changed some of this organic material into coal, oil and natural gas.

Realizing the potential for the deep-well drilling of natural gas, the U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Fossil Energy established a "Deep Trek" program to lower the cost and improve the efficiency of drilling commercially productive deep wells. "Deep Trek" maintains its "Office of Fossil Energy" bias despite describing deep-well natural-gas drilling as needing to penetrate rock structures that sound more like bedrock than sedimentary layers:

Tapping into this resource will be both technologically daunting and expensive. For wells deeper than 15,000 feet, as much as 50 percent of drilling costs can be spent in penetrating the last 10 percent of a well's depth. The rock is typically hot, hard, abrasive, and under extreme pressure. Often, in deeper wells, it is not uncommon for the drill bit to slow to only two to four feet per hour at operating costs of tens of thousands of dollars a day for a land rig and millions of dollars a day for deep offshore formations. And it is exceedingly difficult to control the precise trajectory of a well when the drill bit is nearly three miles below the surface.

In Japan, gas has been produced from granite at a depth of 4,300 meters (2.7 miles). Those who doubt that natural gas can be found in bedrock structures should visit the website of Teikoku Oil, a Japanese company that has developed drilling equipment specifically designed to explore for natural gas in and below bedrock levels.

Even those who might stretch to argue that even if no dinosaurs ever died in sedimentary rock that today lies 30,000 feet below the surface, might still argue that those levels contain some type of biological debris that has transformed into natural gas. That argument, a stretch at 30,000 feet down, is almost impossible to make for basement structure bedrock. Japan's Nagaoka and Niigata fields produce natural gas from bedrock that is volcanic in nature. What dinosaur debris could possibly be trapped in volcanic rock found at deep-earth levels?

Deep-earth natural gas strongly supports the theory that the origin of oil is abiotic, not organic in nature. Moreover, natural gas is being found abundantly at deep-earth levels around the world - so much so that the deep-earth discoveries of natural gas are increasing worldwide natural gas reserve estimates to the point where "Peak-Production" theories are being challenged as well. But that will have to be the subject of another column.
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 07:19 am
It was determined in the Jesus University that up is down and out is over. Meantime, the signs that the sky is falling continue unabated.
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 07:37 am
As with your petroleum conspiracy thread, this is more conservative horsie poop. Go ahead, Gunga Din, allege that this is a "scientific" discussion.

Your source,--World Net--is a for profit organization, and that means that claims on their part to serve the public are dubious at best--as are the credentials of the founder and majority share-holder, Mr. Farah.

It takes only a very little online research to get sufficient imformation to make an informed judgment on a source used here--although, given that i could find no "about us" link at World Net, it took a little longer, although not much longer. The Wikipedia article on World Net states:

Wikipedia wrote:
WorldNetDaily, also known as WND, is a conservative online news site.

It was founded in 1997 by Joseph Farah. The site features links to news articles and political/social commentaries, mostly with conservative and Evangelical Christian viewpoints. Although WND features exclusive stories, it also features many articles that originate with other news services that correlate with its right-leaning views. There are also links to Shop Net Daily, their online store which sells conservative media.

WND also publishes books under the name WND Books. An example of a notable printing includes The Savage Nation by Michael Savage.

ConWebWatch-dot-com wrote:
Farah worked for a number of daily newspapers prior to the creation of WorldNetDaily. In 1990, he became editor of the now-defunct Sacramento (Calif.) Union, owned for several years by Richard Mellon Scaife, though he did not start work there after Scaife sold the paper to two Sacramento real estate developers, Daniel Benvenuti Jr. and David Kassis. They along with Farah were accused of taking the paper in an even more conservative direction than it had been under Scaife and skewing stories to reflect conservative ideas. Farah resigned as editor 15 months later; under his editorship, the paper's circulation declined approximately 30 percent. (The Sacramento Union closed in 1994; it was revived in 2004 as a web site and a monthly magazine.) Farah has also served as executive news editor of the Los Angeles Herald Examiner (now defunct) and served as editor-in-chief of a group of California dailies and weeklies.

Farah is the co-author, with U.S. Rep. Richard Pombo, of "This Land is Our Land," and in 1994 he collaborated with Rush Limbaugh on his book "See, I Told You So." In 2003, he wrote the book "Taking America Back."

Farah co-founded the Western Journalism Center with James H. Smith, former publisher of the Sacramento Union (and former CEO and publisher of the revived Sacramento Union operation). The center provided Christopher Ruddy with "additional expense money, funding for Freedom of Information Act requests, legal support and publicity" during his investigation of the death of Vince Foster while working as a reporter for the New York Post and the Scaife-owned Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. This included buying full-page ads in major newspapers reproducing Ruddy's work and co-producing a video about the Foster investigation with Ruddy. The center accepted $330,000 in donations from Scaife-connected foundations in 1994-95. The center has been involved in an ongoing lawsuit against the Internal Revenue Service over a tax audit it alleges was politically motivated. Farah is, like Bozell, also a member of the secretive Council for National Policy.

WorldNetDaily started in May 1997 as a project of the Western Journalism Center. WorldNetDaily describes itself as "a fiercely independent newssite committed to hard-hitting investigative reporting of government waste, fraud and abuse." WorldNetDaily.com, Inc., headquartered in Cave Junction, Ore., but incorporated in Delaware, was spun off in 1999 as a for-profit subsidiary of the non-profit Western Journalism Center with the backing of $4.5 million from investors. Farah and the Western Journalism Center own a majority of WND, according to Farah; the rest of the stock is owned by about 75 private investors. As of late 2001, WorldNetDaily employed 25 people. Farah says that about 80 percent of WND's revenue comes from the sale of books and videos through the site; In 2002, WND created a book publishing division in partnership with Thomas Nelson Publishers, a prominent Christian publisher; authors include Katherine Harris and Michael Savage. That partnership ended in late 2004, and WND's new book partner is Cumberland House Publishing. The company claimed in 2001 that it expected to turn a profit in 2002. WND has approximately 20 employees.

This quote from this source. When you go to the site of ConWebWatch, at the top, you will find a "clickable" rubric--"about." This is a standard disclosure page which is to be found at any reputable web site. When i visited World Net, however, i could find no link to such a disclosure page. Perhaps Gunga Din can unlighten us, and provide a link for World Net's "about us" page.


When you post garbage, Gunga Din, and you are told that you are posting garbage, you sneer and claim that you were victimized by ad hominem, and then attempt to take the intellectual high ground by references to the "scientific" content of your garbage. Web sites founded by conservatives, owned by individuals (especially someone whose journalistic resume includes running down the circulation of a Sacrament daily newspaper by 30%), which have a political agenda to push, are not entitled to be presented as reliable scientific sources.

I haven't the least doubt that you'll sneer at me and allege that this is a personal attack. But if you don't want that sort of thing in your threads, don't post garbage from questionable web sites.
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 07:43 am
This guy in your article is mostly incorrect about his understandings. Hes just a writer, doesnt mean he knows anything. Nobody ever said hydrocarbons come from dinosaurs. The source biotic material is usually marine animals like foraminiferans.All the deep drilling has been associated with a "source rock area" wherein the petroleum and gas were originally formed. Hydrocarbons need 3 things
1 a source area
2 ameans of diagenesis
3migration pathway and a trap

A certain amount of abiotic chemically formed hydrocarbons has been postulated by the Russians since the 50's. Weve found that this is accurate but not of any significant economic amount. Sorry gunga , but the Hubbert curve still works. Tropsch process hydrocarbons were incorporated into the early earths environment.

The Nagaoka and Niigata fields are located in fractured metamorphics that are overlain by the sedimentary source rocks. The hydrocarbons merely migrated into the deep fractured metamorphics and were trapped. Any student of econ Geology I will know all this material that youve "discovered"

Everyone knows that the Tropsch process will take Co2 and , in a Hydrogen atmosphere, at about 130 C will form long chain HCs and methane. This is precisely the way that the earths early environment helped develop life.

Youve got yourself painted into a corner. If you believe that abiotic oil is a significant energy source, then it also could serve as a source for biological molecules.
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 07:48 am
FM, the author of the article is Jerome Corsi--allegedly a PhD. However, the "scientific discipline" in which he received his doctorate is political science. The only source i have ever been able to find for his self-serving contention that he received a doctorate in political science from Harvard University in 1972 is the same site, World Net. Every other reference to his "PhD" which i have seen ultimately refers back to that site's contention. He may well have a doctorate, although the evidence is dubious. But, as with Gunga Din's peak oil conspiracy thread, one has a perfect right to laugh at the silly contention that someone claiming to be a political "scientist" is qualified to make technical comments on earth sciences.
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 08:00 am
Gungas one of our more assertive anti-science apostles. His abiotic oil fixation works against him when he considers its significance to the early earth.

The Anadarko basin's source rock is so well known that Im not even gonna comment. To assert that its abiogenic is just what gunga believes in. He never goes beyond the "tabloid" stage. Thats where he lives. He never fails to entertain , however.
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 09:13 am
Methane itself is a widely distributed, naturally occurring, abiotic material; witness the atmospheres of extra-terrestrial planets and spectral analysis of emissions from distant star systems - its everywhere, its among the key buildingblocks of the universe. Most commonly here on Terra, it presents as a simple short-chain hydrocarbon, something we call "Natural Gas", preponderantly CH4, with a touch of ethane (another simple molecule; C2H6, and a smattering of other short-chain hydrocarbons; it can be the result of the decomposition of organic matter - chiefly phytoplankton, algaes, and bacteria, and it can be the result of abiotic production, via the action of water, heat and pressure on calcium carbonate in the presence of various oxides of iron - all well distributed throughout the mantle of the planet.

Given plate tectonics and a few billion years, and the fact that sediment composed of biotic material - bacteria, algaes, planktons and their precusors, would naturally have coated the primordial sea bttoms, again it would be more of a surprise to not find methane at various depths throughout the mantle, including great depths. And then there is the natural migration of fluids and gasses through the mantle via cracks and fissures.

An additional source mechanism - likely the primary vector, for Terrestrial methane is planetary accretion - as it is ubiqitous in space, it is absurd to assume other than that methane in large quantities, in the form of frozen chunks, absolutely had to be among the components of the planet's formation. To discover it might not be found as this article reports it to have been would be far more surprising.

Finally, there is the common ID-iot absurdity of asserting a conceptual equating of dinosaurs with hydrocarbons; if any more conclusive evidence of the total lack of education and understanding endemic to the Creationist/ID clowns might exist, I can't imagine what it might be.

Of course, one must never underestimate nature's capacity for producing ever-greater fools, nor the capacity of fools to fabricate and embrace foolish notions.
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 06:27 pm
Like I say, this one really brings out the crybaby in evoluddites.

My solution: Pass a law letting evolosers go on paying $2 - $3 a gallon for gas while the rest of us start paying 22 cents a gallon like when Ike was president.
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 06:32 pm
Do we have to accept the wages like when Ike was president.
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 06:43 pm
gungasnake is easily impressed and is working hard to understand. Lets give him a hand .

"Evoluddites" , whew, thou hittest at the quick foul knave. Givest thou thy best shot?"

Anyone who, like gunga, thinks that Russ Humphries is at the "cutting edge " of geo- science needs some ex-lax for the mind. (Or neural ganglion , which ever is closest to describe the "snake"'s cognative node)

Why not power your car with all the "fairy dust" that your Creationist friends use.
Youve ignored my comment that you are dead wrongabout the Japanese fields,I knew ya would. Its so not supportive of your drivvle (or is it dribble)

How about Tropsch process and the origin of life from H2+Co2 in a hydrogen /Nitrogen rich atmosphere . (Sorta like the pre -3.8 Billion year ago timeline?)
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 07:00 pm
Gunga, you are definitely fun to watch in action.
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 07:18 pm
Re: Dinosaurs 30,000 feet below the ground??
gungasnake wrote:
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Developments in deep-drilling for natural gas present serious challenges to those who still maintain "Fossil-Fuel" theories as to the origin of complex hydrocarbon fuels.

Whereas GungaSnake Oil can be found laying right on the surface.
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 09:56 pm
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Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 09:57 pm
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Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 08:35 am
ros line was so good it deserves a reprise. Ros, give yourself a big hand.
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Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 08:40 am
Deep drilling for methane? They've been doing that in San Francisco for years.
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