Way out here in the olde west we sing "Oh Tumbleweed" and thank the Russian wheat farmers that brought us the seed. Bastards!
Reyn wrote:ehBeth wrote:being a good person in your day to day life is the way to celebrate the birth of Jesus, not a party.
I try to do that every day, and I don't belong to a religion, although I do believe in "God".
Reyn,
I think the point is that beeing a good person in you day to day life makes you a Christian.
reyn, you are one true canadian ! "...I'm white and not a Christian (or anything else). If someone said that to me, I'd probably say something like, "Have a good day, eh?" ...
at our morning swim there a good variety of nationalities represented, and more often than not we wish each other : " have a good one, eh ! " - no matter what the occasion.
imo the whole "christmas" thing has just become part of our economy. there are % increases and decreases in sales of various goods at "christmas" time cited to measure the " health " of our economy, but does it have anything to do with being a "christian" or living in a "christian" society ??? (not many people cutting their cloaks in halves to share with the poor anymore).
imo you can lump it all together : christmas, easter, mother's day ... they've all pretty well become commercialized .
now, if someone wants to go to church, pray at home, on the street ... i don't have a problem with that at all ...
i'm just not very charitable when i'm being told that shopping for "the holidays" is some kind of christian duty - i know, i know, i'm overstating things a bit, just trying to drive home a point.
to all and everyone : " have a good one, eh !" . hbg
here another living legend about the fir-tree and its significance in german custom.
when a house is being built and has been "topped-off" , it is customary to have a ceremony to celebrate this accomplishment. the master carpenter will give a speech, the builder will contribute some drinks "to moisten the parched throats" of the tradespeople and a "firtree" - or wreath - will be hoisted on top . this is a very important custom, and even when large buildings are being constructed, this custom will be observed. if it's a government building the mayor or a government minister will often be in attendance.
should a builder be so negligent and forget to provide the necessary "refreshments", the tradespeople will often hoist an old broom on top of the building to tell all about the cheap builder - the firtree is thought to give thanks and ask for luck, whereas the broom is thought to invite bad luck upon the builder and the house.
ebrown_p wrote: Reyn wrote:ehBeth wrote:being a good person in your day to day life is the way to celebrate the birth of Jesus, not a party.
I try to do that every day, and I don't belong to a religion, although I do believe in "God".
Reyn,
I think the point is that beeing a good person in you day to day life makes you a Christian.
I'm afraid I have to disagree on that point. Presumably, as a good Christian, one would also have to have faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible.
I look another way.
hamburger wrote:at our morning swim there a good variety of nationalities represented, and more often than not we wish each other : " have a good one, eh ! " - no matter what the occasion.
imo the whole "christmas" thing has just become part of our economy. there are % increases and decreases in sales of various goods at "christmas" time cited to measure the " health " of our economy, but does it have anything to do with being a "christian" or living in a "christian" society ??? (not many people cutting their cloaks in halves to share with the poor anymore).
imo you can lump it all together : christmas, easter, mother's day ... they've all pretty well become commercialized .
now, if someone wants to go to church, pray at home, on the street ... i don't have a problem with that at all ...
i'm just not very charitable when i'm being told that shopping for "the holidays" is some kind of christian duty - i know, i know, i'm overstating things a bit, just trying to drive home a point.
Mr. Hamburger, you are a wise gent and I agree. I'm sure you read between the lines of what I said and realized I was being a bit of a smartass, but that's how I feel about various holidays. Since I am not a Christian in any sense of the word, these holidays are fairly meaningless to me.
But, I'm very much of a mindset to "live and let live", so long as nobody gets in my face about it. I'm not one to criticise someone's believes, as I understand how much they mean to people. That's why you'll never see me in the Religion forum.
I certainly agree with what you say about the economy.
You know what Mr. Hamburger? You remind me very much of my father. :wink:
reyn wrote : " You know what Mr. Hamburger? You remind me very much of my father ".
whoa, hold the horses ! you sure know how to sweet-talk !!!
did i understand from one of your postings that you are starting to look forward to (early) retirement ? no springchicken , err, springrooster any more ?
i do agree with you , "live and let live" or in german "leben und leben lassen" - as my parents used to say.
have a good one, eh ! hbg
hamburger wrote:did i understand from one of your postings that you are starting to look forward to (early) retirement ? no springchicken , err, springrooster any more ?
Yes, my last day of work will be near the end of December. I'll be on pre-retirement leave between then and officially retire (1 May 2006) after my 55th birthday in April.
By the way, my mother was born in Germany and my father in Holland.
I think is was Bart Simpson who said:
"Christmas is a time when people of all religions come together to celebrate the birth of our Saviour, Jesus Christ."
Here in Ireland, we call it "de three".
Yes, it would be Bart to say something like that.
reyn : "55" that's when i retired, even though i had been warned that it would be a big mistake to retire so early. mrs h and i surely have enjoyed retirement and never regretted it . hope you will enjoy your retirement ! hbg
ps. while we were born in germany, we came to canada on a little dutch freighter, "prins wllem" - 1,500 tons , 11 passengers ! - of the oranje line. hbg
Trees are so expensive. I'm going to see if I can get corperate sponsorship for my tree. Name it after my corperate sponsor and put the corperate emblem on the top. The Enron tree.
Merry Christmas.
the real "dutch sinterklaas" from
www.sinterklaas.nl/
a great page for browsing and playing "sinterklaas" games . hbg
Santa pope!!!!
Cool website (hip ans stylish).Cool language too.
hamburger wrote:reyn : "55" that's when i retired, even though i had been warned that it would be a big mistake to retire so early.
we came to canada on a little dutch freighter, "prins wllem" - 1,500 tons , 11 passengers ! - of the oranje line. hbg
Mr. Hamburger,
With my job, I wouldn't want to work past 55. It can be quite physically demanding and dangerous. I'm not worried at all and don't 55 is too early at all.
Besides, I intend to take a part time job for a few years. I have lots to do, so I'm not concerned about being "bored".
Our family flew from Holland to Montreal in July 1956. Travelled across Canada to BC by train.
july 1956 : that's when we sailed from rotterdam via le havre to montreal . it was our honeymoon cruise; for our 50th in 2006 we are planning to sail from valparaiso/chile to lisbon - it'll take 31 days with plenty of harbours to stop at along the way. hbg
Very nice! Happy 50th anniversary then! I hope you take lots of pictures. :wink:
Quote:According to Edna Barth (Holly, Reindeer, and Colored Lights: The Story of Christmas Symbols), the first record of a Christmas tree is in a German book dated 1604. Origins of the practice, however, date much further back. In the winter solstice celebration known as Saturnalia, Romans decorated trees and placed an image of the sun god at the tip. Druid priests in the Celtic region that is now England and France, decorated oak trees with gilded apples and lighted candles to honor the sun god and the god of fruit.
With Christianity came new symbolic interpretations of the Christmas tree. One legend tells of a missionary in Germany who, in trying to convert the pagans of the area, cut down the oak under which they were worshipping. In its place, a small fir tree miraculously appeared. The missionary told
those gathered that the fir tree was the tree of Christ, a symbol of goodness and love that should be taken into their homes. Another legend involves Martin Luther, the 16th century German Protestant leader. One Christmas Eve, inspired by the beauty of the tall firs against the starry night sky, he cut a tree down and took it home to his family. There he decorated it with lights to symbolize the stars in the heavens above Bethlehem.
By the 18th century, the tradition of bringing a tree indoors and decorating it with candles and ornaments was widespread throughout Germany, the Netherlands and Scandinavia. German soldiers, fighting for the British against the American Colonists during the Revolutionary War, set up Christmas trees to remind them of home. But it did not become a popular tradition in America until much later. Many of the early colonies outlawed the celebration of Christmas, because the Puritans considered it nothing but a rowdy, pagan celebration with no biblical sanction. With the influx of Europeans after the war, many different Christmas customs came to America, including the German Christmas tree and Kris Kringle. So popular were these customs and traditions, that soon all states made Christmas a legal holiday.
One of the people credited with introducing the Christmas tree in America was Dr. Charles Follen. A German-born professor at Harvard University, Follen wanted his young son and family to experience the magic of the glowing Christmas trees of his childhood. One year he surprised them with a fully decorated and lighted tree. The Follen family invited neighbors to gather round their indoor tree. One of the guests wrote about the event in a local magazine, and a New England tradition was born.
http://www.uua.org/clf/quest/1999-12.htmlhttp://www.uua.org/clf/quest/1999-12.html
Follen later became a Unitarian minister so the UU's claim the honor of bringing the Christmas tree tradition to the US.
